(too old to reply)
"elohim" definition
moshe
2013-03-06 07:04:08 UTC
Quoted from:
https://groups.google.com/group/alt.messianic/msg/465fcf2abbae6ccb?dmode=source
<snip>
That true of man generally, but this Psalm refers ...
<snip>
... so when God says of them, "ye are gods", I think it
refers to them being angels, angels who are "children
of the most High" (angels also being called the "SONS
of God" - Gen. 6:4 & Job 38:7)
Here Linda openly promotes her fallen angel theory
and yet Moshe remains silent unto her.
So when Jesus said it, he was refering to them as
fallen angels LMAO!!
And, Linda may still be selling her book for "gain"
which promotes this 'heresy'.
Are you serious? She wrote a book on that?
--
Peter
====================
Linda Lee's theory is a variation of
some beliefs that surround Genesis 6:2.
I disagree with Linda Lee's belief regarding that,
but Linda Lee's belief does not have any direct impact
on her salvation or the salvation of anyone else.
It is a "side issue".
You never did argue with me about that issue, even when we were at
odds years ago.
========================
"even when we were at odds years ago"
Do not believe it, folks.
Linda Lee and I never dated.
My ego prevents me from dating people who are prettier than I am.
========================
I wonder though what do you think about Christ/God saying to the
Israelites, "Ye are gods", when God said there were no other gods
besides Himself (Isa. 45:5, 6, & 21), and God also said that the
'other gods' weren't really gods at all, but were actually devils
(Deut. 32:17)?
=========================
This is just the way I see it.
Not written in stone.
And not written with your finger? Lol!
If you look up every instance in which that Hebrew word and related
Hebrew words occur in the Bible,
context determines definition.
Psalm 82:6http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Psa&c=82&v=6&t=NKJV#conc/6
"gods" = "elohim"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H430&...
and "Most High" = "elyon"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5945...
The Hebrew words are just relative degrees of "judge".
So you say
אלהים 'elohiym means JUDGES???
Moshe, you are so full of it.
TCross
=================

"Elohim"
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H430&t=KJV

"Elohim" can mean "judges" as an idiom.

Just as "Elohohim" can mean "God" as an idiom.

In the most literal sense it means "powerful".
Then it takes on more specific meanings based on context.

EXAMPLE #1:

See Genesis 23:6.
"Hear us, my lord: thou art a mighty prince among us: in the choice of
our sepulchres bury thy dead; none of us shall withhold from thee his
sepulchre, but that thou mayest bury thy dead."
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gen&c=23&v=6&t=KJV#6

In the Hebrew that is:
"Hear us, my lord: thou art an "elohim" prince among us: in the choice
of our sepulchres bury thy dead; none of us shall withhold from thee
his sepulchre, but that thou mayest bury thy dead."


EXAMPLE #2:

See Genesis 30:8.
"And Rachel said, With great wrestlings have I wrestled with my
sister, and I have prevailed: and she called his name Naphtali."
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gen&c=30&t=KJV#8

In the Hebrew that is:
"And Rachel said, With "elohim" wrestlings have I wrestled with my
sister, and I have prevailed: and she called his name Naphtali.

EXAMPLE #3:

See Jonah 3:3.
"So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the
LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey."

In the Hebrew that is:
"So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the
LORD. Now Nineveh was an "elohim" great city of three days' journey."

EXAMPLE #4:

See Exodus 9:28.
"Intreat the LORD for it is enough that there be no more mighty
thunderings and hail; and I will let you go, and ye shall stay no
longer."
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Exd&c=9&v=28&t=KJV#28

In the Hebrew that is:
"Intreat the LORD for it is enough that there be no more "elohim"
thunderings and hail; and I will let you go, and ye shall stay no
longer."

EXAMPLE #5:

See Exodus 22:8-9 which has 3 instances of "elohim" as "judges":
"If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be
brought unto the judges, [to see] whether he have put his hand unto
his neighbour's goods.
For all manner of trespass, [whether it be] for ox, for ass, for
sheep, for raiment, [or] for any manner of lost thing, which [another]
challengeth to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before the
judges; [and] whom the judges shall condemn, he shall pay double unto
his neighbour."
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Exd&c=22&v=8&t=KJV#8

In the Hebrew that is:
"If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be
brought unto the "elohim", [to see] whether he have put his hand unto
his neighbour's goods.
For all manner of trespass, [whether it be] for ox, for ass, for
sheep, for raiment, [or] for any manner of lost thing, which [another]
challengeth to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before the
"elohim"; [and] whom the "elohoim" shall condemn, he shall pay double
unto his neighbour."

EXAMPLE #6:

See I Samuel 2:25:
"If one man sin against another, the judge shall judge him: but if a
man sin against the LORD, who shall intreat for him? Notwithstanding
they hearkened not unto the voice of their father, because the LORD
would slay them."
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Sa&c=2&v=25&t=KJV#25

In the Hebrew that is:
"If one man sin against another, the "elohim" shall judge him: but if
a man sin against the LORD, who shall intreat for him? Notwithstanding
they hearkened not unto the voice of their father, because the LORD
would slay them."

EXAMPLE #7:

See I Samuel 14:15:
"And there was trembling in the host, in the field, and among all the
people: the garrison, and the spoilers, they also trembled, and the
earth quaked: so it was a very great trembling."

In the Hebrew that is:

"And there was trembling in the host, in the field, and among all the
people: the garrison, and the spoilers, they also trembled, and the
earth quaked: so it was a "elohim" trembling."

- moshe
Sam Taylor
2013-03-06 07:18:44 UTC
EL=Strong or Mighty,
it does not of always Mean G-D
in the scriptures it is translated from EL, or El, and or el
as G-D,G-d, and or g-d in rank
as all caps Heavenly, or the first letter in caps as Earthly,
or all lower case, as either of a Nation, or of a local region.
You have various forms of "Mighty Ones" or Strong Ones
from Almighty, to very mighty, to Mighty.
Sam


"moshe" wrote in message news:97e3aaca-ca3d-4bf6-85c6-***@n2g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...

Quoted from:
https://groups.google.com/group/alt.messianic/msg/465fcf2abbae6ccb?dmode=source
<snip>
That true of man generally, but this Psalm refers ...
<snip>
... so when God says of them, "ye are gods", I think it
refers to them being angels, angels who are "children
of the most High" (angels also being called the "SONS
of God" - Gen. 6:4 & Job 38:7)
Here Linda openly promotes her fallen angel theory
and yet Moshe remains silent unto her.
So when Jesus said it, he was refering to them as
fallen angels LMAO!!
And, Linda may still be selling her book for "gain"
which promotes this 'heresy'.
Are you serious? She wrote a book on that?
--
Peter
====================
Linda Lee's theory is a variation of
some beliefs that surround Genesis 6:2.
I disagree with Linda Lee's belief regarding that,
but Linda Lee's belief does not have any direct impact
on her salvation or the salvation of anyone else.
It is a "side issue".
You never did argue with me about that issue, even when we were at
odds years ago.
========================
"even when we were at odds years ago"
Do not believe it, folks.
Linda Lee and I never dated.
My ego prevents me from dating people who are prettier than I am.
========================
I wonder though what do you think about Christ/God saying to the
Israelites, "Ye are gods", when God said there were no other gods
besides Himself (Isa. 45:5, 6, & 21), and God also said that the
'other gods' weren't really gods at all, but were actually devils
(Deut. 32:17)?
=========================
This is just the way I see it.
Not written in stone.
And not written with your finger? Lol!
If you look up every instance in which that Hebrew word and related
Hebrew words occur in the Bible,
context determines definition.
Psalm
82:6http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Psa&c=82&v=6&t=NKJV#conc/6
"gods" =
"elohim"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H430&...
and "Most High" =
"elyon"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5945...
The Hebrew words are just relative degrees of "judge".
So you say
אלהים 'elohiym means JUDGES???
Moshe, you are so full of it.
TCross
=================

"Elohim"
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H430&t=KJV

"Elohim" can mean "judges" as an idiom.

Just as "Elohohim" can mean "God" as an idiom.

In the most literal sense it means "powerful".
Then it takes on more specific meanings based on context.

EXAMPLE #1:

See Genesis 23:6.
"Hear us, my lord: thou art a mighty prince among us: in the choice of
our sepulchres bury thy dead; none of us shall withhold from thee his
sepulchre, but that thou mayest bury thy dead."
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gen&c=23&v=6&t=KJV#6

In the Hebrew that is:
"Hear us, my lord: thou art an "elohim" prince among us: in the choice
of our sepulchres bury thy dead; none of us shall withhold from thee
his sepulchre, but that thou mayest bury thy dead."


EXAMPLE #2:

See Genesis 30:8.
"And Rachel said, With great wrestlings have I wrestled with my
sister, and I have prevailed: and she called his name Naphtali."
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gen&c=30&t=KJV#8

In the Hebrew that is:
"And Rachel said, With "elohim" wrestlings have I wrestled with my
sister, and I have prevailed: and she called his name Naphtali.

EXAMPLE #3:

See Jonah 3:3.
"So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the
LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey."

In the Hebrew that is:
"So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the
LORD. Now Nineveh was an "elohim" great city of three days' journey."

EXAMPLE #4:

See Exodus 9:28.
"Intreat the LORD for it is enough that there be no more mighty
thunderings and hail; and I will let you go, and ye shall stay no
longer."
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Exd&c=9&v=28&t=KJV#28

In the Hebrew that is:
"Intreat the LORD for it is enough that there be no more "elohim"
thunderings and hail; and I will let you go, and ye shall stay no
longer."

EXAMPLE #5:

See Exodus 22:8-9 which has 3 instances of "elohim" as "judges":
"If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be
brought unto the judges, [to see] whether he have put his hand unto
his neighbour's goods.
For all manner of trespass, [whether it be] for ox, for ass, for
sheep, for raiment, [or] for any manner of lost thing, which [another]
challengeth to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before the
judges; [and] whom the judges shall condemn, he shall pay double unto
his neighbour."
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Exd&c=22&v=8&t=KJV#8

In the Hebrew that is:
"If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be
brought unto the "elohim", [to see] whether he have put his hand unto
his neighbour's goods.
For all manner of trespass, [whether it be] for ox, for ass, for
sheep, for raiment, [or] for any manner of lost thing, which [another]
challengeth to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before the
"elohim"; [and] whom the "elohoim" shall condemn, he shall pay double
unto his neighbour."

EXAMPLE #6:

See I Samuel 2:25:
"If one man sin against another, the judge shall judge him: but if a
man sin against the LORD, who shall intreat for him? Notwithstanding
they hearkened not unto the voice of their father, because the LORD
would slay them."
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Sa&c=2&v=25&t=KJV#25

In the Hebrew that is:
"If one man sin against another, the "elohim" shall judge him: but if
a man sin against the LORD, who shall intreat for him? Notwithstanding
they hearkened not unto the voice of their father, because the LORD
would slay them."

EXAMPLE #7:

See I Samuel 14:15:
"And there was trembling in the host, in the field, and among all the
people: the garrison, and the spoilers, they also trembled, and the
earth quaked: so it was a very great trembling."

In the Hebrew that is:

"And there was trembling in the host, in the field, and among all the
people: the garrison, and the spoilers, they also trembled, and the
earth quaked: so it was a "elohim" trembling."

- moshe
moshe
2013-03-06 09:54:44 UTC
Post by Sam Taylor
EL=Strong or Mighty,
it does not of always  Mean G-D
in the scriptures it is translated from EL, or El, and or el
as G-D,G-d, and or g-d in rank
as all caps Heavenly, or the first letter in caps as Earthly,
or all lower case, as either of a Nation, or of a local region.
You have various forms of "Mighty Ones" or Strong Ones
from Almighty, to very mighty, to Mighty.
Sam
====================

Psalm 82:1 contains both "Elohim" and "el".
"El", of course, is the root of "Elohim".

Psalm 82:1 says in the New King James:

"God stands in the congregation of the mighty; He judges among the
gods."

That translation is questionable in one way.

In the Hebrew it says:

" "Elohim" stands in the congregation of "el", He judges among
"elohim"."

A better translation, taking into the context of the words, would be:

"God stands in the congregation of the mighty; He judges among mighty
ones."

That uses "power" as the basic definition of "el",
and "powerful ones" as the basic definition of "elohim".
Since God is omnipotent, God is "THE Power of all Powers".

"El" means "power" in:
Genesis 31:29
Proverbs 3:27
Micah 2:1
Nehemiah 5:5

"El" means "God" in:
II Samuel 22:33
Job 36:22
Psalm 68:35
Psalm 150:1

"El" means "mighty" in in Ezekiel 31:11 and "strong" in Ezekiel 32:21.
"I have therefore delivered him into the hand of the mighty one of the
heathen"
"The strong among the mighty shall speak to him out of the midst of
hell"

- moshe
Linda Lee
2013-03-06 21:20:49 UTC
Post by Sam Taylor
EL=Strong or Mighty,
it does not of always  Mean G-D
in the scriptures it is translated from EL, or El, and or el
as G-D,G-d, and or g-d in rank
as all caps Heavenly, or the first letter in caps as Earthly,
or all lower case, as either of a Nation, or of a local region.
You have various forms of "Mighty Ones" or Strong Ones
from Almighty, to very mighty, to Mighty.
Sam
====================
Psalm 82:1 contains both "Elohim" and "el".
"El", of course, is the root of "Elohim".
"God stands in the congregation of the mighty; He judges among the
gods."
That translation is questionable in one way.
" "Elohim" stands in the congregation of "el", He judges among
"elohim"."
"God stands in the congregation of the mighty; He judges among mighty
ones."
That uses "power" as the basic definition of "el",
and "powerful ones" as the basic definition of "elohim".
Since God is omnipotent, God is "THE Power of all Powers".
Genesis 31:29
Proverbs 3:27
Micah 2:1
Nehemiah 5:5
II Samuel 22:33
Job 36:22
Psalm 68:35
Psalm 150:1
"El" means "mighty" in in Ezekiel 31:11 and "strong" in Ezekiel 32:21.
"I have therefore delivered him into the hand of the mighty one of the
heathen"
"The strong among the mighty shall speak to him out of the midst of
hell"
- moshe
El is defined as strength and mighty:
Heb. 410
אל
'êl
ale
Shortened from H352; strength; as adjective mighty; especially the
Almighty (but used also of any deity).
Terry Cross
2013-03-06 21:30:25 UTC
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Sam Taylor
EL=Strong or Mighty,
it does not of always  Mean G-D
in the scriptures it is translated from EL, or El, and or el
as G-D,G-d, and or g-d in rank
as all caps Heavenly, or the first letter in caps as Earthly,
or all lower case, as either of a Nation, or of a local region.
You have various forms of "Mighty Ones" or Strong Ones
from Almighty, to very mighty, to Mighty.
Sam
====================
Psalm 82:1 contains both "Elohim" and "el".
"El", of course, is the root of "Elohim".
"God stands in the congregation of the mighty; He judges among the
gods."
That translation is questionable in one way.
" "Elohim" stands in the congregation of "el", He judges among
"elohim"."
"God stands in the congregation of the mighty; He judges among mighty
ones."
That uses "power" as the basic definition of "el",
and "powerful ones" as the basic definition of "elohim".
Since God is omnipotent, God is "THE Power of all Powers".
Genesis 31:29
Proverbs 3:27
Micah 2:1
Nehemiah 5:5
II Samuel 22:33
Job 36:22
Psalm 68:35
Psalm 150:1
"El" means "mighty" in in Ezekiel 31:11 and "strong" in Ezekiel 32:21.
"I have therefore delivered him into the hand of the mighty one of the
heathen"
"The strong among the mighty shall speak to him out of the midst of
hell"
- moshe
Heb. 410
אל
'êl
ale
Shortened from H352; strength; as adjective mighty; especially the
Almighty (but used also of any deity).
"Almighty" has a similar origin. But that is not the definition of
the word in all contexts.

TCross
moshe
2013-03-06 22:06:01 UTC
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Sam Taylor
EL=Strong or Mighty,
it does not of always  Mean G-D
in the scriptures it is translated from EL, or El, and or el
as G-D,G-d, and or g-d in rank
as all caps Heavenly, or the first letter in caps as Earthly,
or all lower case, as either of a Nation, or of a local region.
You have various forms of "Mighty Ones" or Strong Ones
from Almighty, to very mighty, to Mighty.
Sam
====================
Psalm 82:1 contains both "Elohim" and "el".
"El", of course, is the root of "Elohim".
"God stands in the congregation of the mighty; He judges among the
gods."
That translation is questionable in one way.
" "Elohim" stands in the congregation of "el", He judges among
"elohim"."
"God stands in the congregation of the mighty; He judges among mighty
ones."
That uses "power" as the basic definition of "el",
and "powerful ones" as the basic definition of "elohim".
Since God is omnipotent, God is "THE Power of all Powers".
Genesis 31:29
Proverbs 3:27
Micah 2:1
Nehemiah 5:5
II Samuel 22:33
Job 36:22
Psalm 68:35
Psalm 150:1
"El" means "mighty" in in Ezekiel 31:11 and "strong" in Ezekiel 32:21.
"I have therefore delivered him into the hand of the mighty one of the
heathen"
"The strong among the mighty shall speak to him out of the midst of
hell"
- moshe
Heb. 410
אל
'êl
ale
Shortened from H352; strength; as adjective mighty; especially the
Almighty (but used also of any deity).
"Almighty" has a similar origin.  But that is not the definition of
the word in all contexts.
TCross
=====================

Terry Cross is now pointing out that *context" affects word meaning?

Strange, because every time we tell Terry Cross to look at context,
she refuses to.

For example,
when I pointed out yesterday that in Psalm 82
the Hebrew words "Elyon" and "elohim"
"are just relative degrees of "judge""

Terry Cross replied:
"So you say
אלהים 'elohiym means JUDGES???
Moshe, you are so full of it."

But Psalm 82:1 says that God judges.
Verse 2 has God accusing man of judging unfairly,
with verses 3-7 giving details.
Then verse 8 calls on God to judge the Earth."

So my definition of "Elyon" and "elohim" as differing degrees of
judges
was *completely* correct within the context shown in Psalm 82.

Plus, I have shown other Bible passages where "elohim"
refers to Earthly judges.

FIRST:

See Exodus 22:8-9 which has 3 instances of "elohim" as "judges":

"If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be
brought unto the judges, [to see] whether he have put his hand unto
his neighbour's goods.
For all manner of trespass, [whether it be] for ox, for ass, for
sheep, for raiment, [or] for any manner of lost thing, which
[another]
challengeth to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before
the
judges; [and] whom the judges shall condemn, he shall pay double unto
his neighbour."
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Exd&c=22&v=8&t=KJV#8


In the Hebrew that is:

"If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be
brought unto the "elohim", [to see] whether he have put his hand unto
his neighbour's goods.
For all manner of trespass, [whether it be] for ox, for ass, for
sheep, for raiment, [or] for any manner of lost thing, which
[another]
challengeth to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before
the
"elohim"; [and] whom the "elohoim" shall condemn, he shall pay double
unto his neighbour."


PLUS:

See I Samuel 2:25:

"If one man sin against another, the judge shall judge him: but if a
man sin against the LORD, who shall intreat for him? Notwithstanding
they hearkened not unto the voice of their father, because the LORD
would slay them."
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Sa&c=2&v=25&t=KJV#25


In the Hebrew that is:

"If one man sin against another, the "elohim" shall judge him: but if
a man sin against the LORD, who shall intreat for him?
Notwithstanding
they hearkened not unto the voice of their father, because the LORD
would slay them."

So, today Terry Cross is telling Linda Lee to define a word in
context.
But when I defined in context yesterday, Terry Cross posted that I am
full of it".

Terry Cross isn;t looking for truth.
Terry Cross is just an anti-Semite who is looking for excuses to
condemn Jews and spread her Nazi propaganda.

- moshe
Terry Cross
2013-03-06 22:16:27 UTC
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Sam Taylor
EL=Strong or Mighty,
it does not of always  Mean G-D
in the scriptures it is translated from EL, or El, and or el
as G-D,G-d, and or g-d in rank
as all caps Heavenly, or the first letter in caps as Earthly,
or all lower case, as either of a Nation, or of a local region.
You have various forms of "Mighty Ones" or Strong Ones
from Almighty, to very mighty, to Mighty.
Sam
====================
Psalm 82:1 contains both "Elohim" and "el".
"El", of course, is the root of "Elohim".
"God stands in the congregation of the mighty; He judges among the
gods."
That translation is questionable in one way.
" "Elohim" stands in the congregation of "el", He judges among
"elohim"."
"God stands in the congregation of the mighty; He judges among mighty
ones."
That uses "power" as the basic definition of "el",
and "powerful ones" as the basic definition of "elohim".
Since God is omnipotent, God is "THE Power of all Powers".
Genesis 31:29
Proverbs 3:27
Micah 2:1
Nehemiah 5:5
II Samuel 22:33
Job 36:22
Psalm 68:35
Psalm 150:1
"El" means "mighty" in in Ezekiel 31:11 and "strong" in Ezekiel 32:21.
"I have therefore delivered him into the hand of the mighty one of the
heathen"
"The strong among the mighty shall speak to him out of the midst of
hell"
- moshe
Heb. 410
אל
'êl
ale
Shortened from H352; strength; as adjective mighty; especially the
Almighty (but used also of any deity).
"Almighty" has a similar origin.  But that is not the definition of
the word in all contexts.
TCross
=====================
Terry Cross is now pointing out that *context" affects word meaning?
No. Never, never, never. Context may enable us to choose which of
several definitions the speaker intended. Context does NOT change a
word's meaning.

TCross
moshe
2013-03-06 22:21:59 UTC
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Sam Taylor
EL=Strong or Mighty,
it does not of always  Mean G-D
in the scriptures it is translated from EL, or El, and or el
as G-D,G-d, and or g-d in rank
as all caps Heavenly, or the first letter in caps as Earthly,
or all lower case, as either of a Nation, or of a local region.
You have various forms of "Mighty Ones" or Strong Ones
from Almighty, to very mighty, to Mighty.
Sam
====================
Psalm 82:1 contains both "Elohim" and "el".
"El", of course, is the root of "Elohim".
"God stands in the congregation of the mighty; He judges among the
gods."
That translation is questionable in one way.
" "Elohim" stands in the congregation of "el", He judges among
"elohim"."
"God stands in the congregation of the mighty; He judges among mighty
ones."
That uses "power" as the basic definition of "el",
and "powerful ones" as the basic definition of "elohim".
Since God is omnipotent, God is "THE Power of all Powers".
Genesis 31:29
Proverbs 3:27
Micah 2:1
Nehemiah 5:5
II Samuel 22:33
Job 36:22
Psalm 68:35
Psalm 150:1
"El" means "mighty" in in Ezekiel 31:11 and "strong" in Ezekiel 32:21.
"I have therefore delivered him into the hand of the mighty one of the
heathen"
"The strong among the mighty shall speak to him out of the midst of
hell"
- moshe
Heb. 410
אל
'êl
ale
Shortened from H352; strength; as adjective mighty; especially the
Almighty (but used also of any deity).
"Almighty" has a similar origin.  But that is not the definition of
the word in all contexts.
TCross
=====================
Terry Cross is now pointing out that *context" affects word meaning?
No.  Never, never, never.  Context may enable us to choose which of
several definitions the speaker intended.  Context does NOT change a
word's meaning.
TCross
===================

Since the root of "El" and "Elohim" mean "power",
one context of that "power" is "authority"
which is is translated "judges" in several places in the Bible.

But when I pointed that out,
Terry Cross said that I am "full of it".

Terry Cross, crawl back underneath your anti-Semitic rock.

- moshe
Terry Cross
2013-03-07 00:42:53 UTC
Quoted from:https://groups.google.com/group/alt.messianic/msg/465fcf2abbae6ccb?dm...
<snip>
That true of man generally, but this Psalm refers ...
<snip>
... so when God says of them, "ye are gods", I think it
refers to them being angels, angels who are "children
of the most High" (angels also being called the "SONS
of God" - Gen. 6:4 & Job 38:7)
Here Linda openly promotes her fallen angel theory
and yet Moshe remains silent unto her.
So when Jesus said it, he was refering to them as
fallen angels LMAO!!
And, Linda may still be selling her book for "gain"
which promotes this 'heresy'.
Are you serious? She wrote a book on that?
--
Peter
====================
Linda Lee's theory is a variation of
some beliefs that surround Genesis 6:2.
I disagree with Linda Lee's belief regarding that,
but Linda Lee's belief does not have any direct impact
on her salvation or the salvation of anyone else.
It is a "side issue".
You never did argue with me about that issue, even when we were at
odds years ago.
========================
"even when we were at odds years ago"
Do not believe it, folks.
Linda Lee and I never dated.
My ego prevents me from dating people who are prettier than I am.
========================
I wonder though what do you think about Christ/God saying to the
Israelites, "Ye are gods", when God said there were no other gods
besides Himself (Isa. 45:5, 6, & 21), and God also said that the
'other gods' weren't really gods at all, but were actually devils
(Deut. 32:17)?
=========================
This is just the way I see it.
Not written in stone.
And not written with your finger? Lol!
If you look up every instance in which that Hebrew word and related
Hebrew words occur in the Bible,
context determines definition.
Psalm 82:6http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Psa&c=82&v=6&t=NKJV#conc/6
 "gods" = "elohim"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H430&...
and "Most High" = "elyon"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5945...
The Hebrew words are just relative degrees of "judge".
So you say
אלהים 'elohiym means JUDGES???
Moshe, you are so full of it.
TCross
=================
"Elohim"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H430&...
"Elohim" can mean "judges" as an idiom.
Just as "Elohohim" can mean "God" as an idiom.
In the most literal sense it means "powerful".
Then it takes on more specific meanings based on context.
You are talking about Hebrew. The existing Gospel is in Greek. John
was probably written in Greek, not Hebrew. And John 10:34 reads:

10:34 ἀπεκρίθη αὐτοῖς ὁ Ἰησοῦς οὐκ ἔστιν γεγραμμένον ἐν τῷ νόμῳ ὑμῶν
ὅτι ἐγὼ εἶπα θεοί ἐστε

θεοί is the plural of Theos, #G2316. It has one meaning only, and
that meaning is NOT "judge."

Psalm 82:6 uses the same word:
81:6 ἐγὼ εἶπα θεοί

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?t=KJV&x=69&y=2&b=Psa&c=82&v=1#conc/6

Theos. Gods, not judges. So either the ancient rabbis who translated
the LXX were wrong,

-- or Moshe is wrong. Who do we vote for, folks? No pushing, please.

TCross
moshe
2013-03-07 00:54:49 UTC
Quoted from:https://groups.google.com/group/alt.messianic/msg/465fcf2abbae6ccb?dm...
<snip>
That true of man generally, but this Psalm refers ...
<snip>
... so when God says of them, "ye are gods", I think it
refers to them being angels, angels who are "children
of the most High" (angels also being called the "SONS
of God" - Gen. 6:4 & Job 38:7)
Here Linda openly promotes her fallen angel theory
and yet Moshe remains silent unto her.
So when Jesus said it, he was refering to them as
fallen angels LMAO!!
And, Linda may still be selling her book for "gain"
which promotes this 'heresy'.
Are you serious? She wrote a book on that?
--
Peter
====================
Linda Lee's theory is a variation of
some beliefs that surround Genesis 6:2.
I disagree with Linda Lee's belief regarding that,
but Linda Lee's belief does not have any direct impact
on her salvation or the salvation of anyone else.
It is a "side issue".
You never did argue with me about that issue, even when we were at
odds years ago.
========================
"even when we were at odds years ago"
Do not believe it, folks.
Linda Lee and I never dated.
My ego prevents me from dating people who are prettier than I am.
========================
I wonder though what do you think about Christ/God saying to the
Israelites, "Ye are gods", when God said there were no other gods
besides Himself (Isa. 45:5, 6, & 21), and God also said that the
'other gods' weren't really gods at all, but were actually devils
(Deut. 32:17)?
=========================
This is just the way I see it.
Not written in stone.
And not written with your finger? Lol!
If you look up every instance in which that Hebrew word and related
Hebrew words occur in the Bible,
context determines definition.
Psalm 82:6http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Psa&c=82&v=6&t=NKJV#conc/6
 "gods" = "elohim"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H430&...
and "Most High" = "elyon"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5945...
The Hebrew words are just relative degrees of "judge".
So you say
אלהים 'elohiym means JUDGES???
Moshe, you are so full of it.
TCross
=================
"Elohim"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H430&...
"Elohim" can mean "judges" as an idiom.
Just as "Elohohim" can mean "God" as an idiom.
In the most literal sense it means "powerful".
Then it takes on more specific meanings based on context.
You are talking about Hebrew.  The existing Gospel is in Greek.  John
10:34  ἀπεκρίθη αὐτοῖς ὁ Ἰησοῦς οὐκ ἔστιν γεγραμμένον ἐν τῷ νόμῳ ὑμῶν
ὅτι ἐγὼ εἶπα θεοί ἐστε
θεοί is the plural of Theos, #G2316.  It has one meaning only, and
that meaning is NOT "judge."
81:6 ἐγὼ εἶπα θεοί
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?t=KJV&x=69&y=2&b=Psa&c=82&v=...
Theos.  Gods, not judges.  So either the ancient rabbis who translated
the LXX were wrong,
-- or Moshe is wrong.  Who do we vote for, folks?  No pushing, please.
TCross-
====================

Terry Cross claims that Jesus spoke Greek,
because Terry Cross claims that Jesus was a Greek Gentile,
not a Jew.

And now Terry Cross claims that the Greek translation of the Old
Testament is more reliable than the original Hebrew Old Testament.

So no need to look at the original Hebrew of Psalm 82 that Jesus was
quoting?
So no need to look at the context of "judge...judge... judge" found
within Psalm 82?

Terry Cross is an endless supply of Nazi propaganda.

Why does Terry Cross care about the matter?
She really HATES Jews that much.
That is her sole motive.

- moshe
Terry Cross
2013-03-07 01:12:43 UTC
Quoted from:https://groups.google.com/group/alt.messianic/msg/465fcf2abbae6ccb?dm...
<snip>
That true of man generally, but this Psalm refers ...
<snip>
... so when God says of them, "ye are gods", I think it
refers to them being angels, angels who are "children
of the most High" (angels also being called the "SONS
of God" - Gen. 6:4 & Job 38:7)
Here Linda openly promotes her fallen angel theory
and yet Moshe remains silent unto her.
So when Jesus said it, he was refering to them as
fallen angels LMAO!!
And, Linda may still be selling her book for "gain"
which promotes this 'heresy'.
Are you serious? She wrote a book on that?
--
Peter
====================
Linda Lee's theory is a variation of
some beliefs that surround Genesis 6:2.
I disagree with Linda Lee's belief regarding that,
but Linda Lee's belief does not have any direct impact
on her salvation or the salvation of anyone else.
It is a "side issue".
You never did argue with me about that issue, even when we were at
odds years ago.
========================
"even when we were at odds years ago"
Do not believe it, folks.
Linda Lee and I never dated.
My ego prevents me from dating people who are prettier than I am.
========================
I wonder though what do you think about Christ/God saying to the
Israelites, "Ye are gods", when God said there were no other gods
besides Himself (Isa. 45:5, 6, & 21), and God also said that the
'other gods' weren't really gods at all, but were actually devils
(Deut. 32:17)?
=========================
This is just the way I see it.
Not written in stone.
And not written with your finger? Lol!
If you look up every instance in which that Hebrew word and related
Hebrew words occur in the Bible,
context determines definition.
Psalm 82:6http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Psa&c=82&v=6&t=NKJV#conc/6
 "gods" = "elohim"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H430&...
and "Most High" = "elyon"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5945...
The Hebrew words are just relative degrees of "judge".
So you say
אלהים 'elohiym means JUDGES???
Moshe, you are so full of it.
TCross
=================
"Elohim"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H430&...
"Elohim" can mean "judges" as an idiom.
Just as "Elohohim" can mean "God" as an idiom.
In the most literal sense it means "powerful".
Then it takes on more specific meanings based on context.
You are talking about Hebrew.  The existing Gospel is in Greek.  John
10:34  ἀπεκρίθη αὐτοῖς ὁ Ἰησοῦς οὐκ ἔστιν γεγραμμένον ἐν τῷ νόμῳ ὑμῶν
ὅτι ἐγὼ εἶπα θεοί ἐστε
θεοί is the plural of Theos, #G2316.  It has one meaning only, and
that meaning is NOT "judge."
81:6 ἐγὼ εἶπα θεοί
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?t=KJV&x=69&y=2&b=Psa&c=82&v=...
Theos.  Gods, not judges.  So either the ancient rabbis who translated
the LXX were wrong,
-- or Moshe is wrong.  Who do we vote for, folks?  No pushing, please.
TCross-
====================
Terry Cross claims that Jesus spoke Greek,
because Terry Cross claims that Jesus was a Greek Gentile,
not a Jew.
And now Terry Cross claims that the Greek translation of the Old
Testament is more reliable than the original Hebrew Old Testament.
No, I claim the translation of the Hebrew to Greek by the ancient
rabbis is more accurate than the translation from Hebrew to English by
the modern Moshe.
So no need to look at the original Hebrew of Psalm 82 that Jesus was
quoting?
So no need to look at the context of "judge...judge... judge" found
within Psalm 82?
Go look. Please yourself. But do not pretend your guess about the
original meaning is better than the ancient rabbis.

TCross
Linda Lee
2013-03-07 08:29:23 UTC
Post by Terry Cross
Quoted from:https://groups.google.com/group/alt.messianic/msg/465fcf2abbae6ccb?dm...
<snip>
That true of man generally, but this Psalm refers ...
<snip>
... so when God says of them, "ye are gods", I think it
refers to them being angels, angels who are "children
of the most High" (angels also being called the "SONS
of God" - Gen. 6:4 & Job 38:7)
Here Linda openly promotes her fallen angel theory
and yet Moshe remains silent unto her.
So when Jesus said it, he was refering to them as
fallen angels LMAO!!
And, Linda may still be selling her book for "gain"
which promotes this 'heresy'.
Are you serious? She wrote a book on that?
--
Peter
====================
Linda Lee's theory is a variation of
some beliefs that surround Genesis 6:2.
I disagree with Linda Lee's belief regarding that,
but Linda Lee's belief does not have any direct impact
on her salvation or the salvation of anyone else.
It is a "side issue".
You never did argue with me about that issue, even when we were at
odds years ago.
========================
"even when we were at odds years ago"
Do not believe it, folks.
Linda Lee and I never dated.
My ego prevents me from dating people who are prettier than I am.
========================
I wonder though what do you think about Christ/God saying to the
Israelites, "Ye are gods", when God said there were no other gods
besides Himself (Isa. 45:5, 6, & 21), and God also said that the
'other gods' weren't really gods at all, but were actually devils
(Deut. 32:17)?
=========================
This is just the way I see it.
Not written in stone.
And not written with your finger? Lol!
If you look up every instance in which that Hebrew word and related
Hebrew words occur in the Bible,
context determines definition.
Psalm 82:6http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Psa&c=82&v=6&t=NKJV#conc/6
 "gods" = "elohim"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H430&...
and "Most High" = "elyon"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5945...
The Hebrew words are just relative degrees of "judge".
So you say
אלהים 'elohiym means JUDGES???
Moshe, you are so full of it.
TCross
=================
"Elohim"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H430&...
"Elohim" can mean "judges" as an idiom.
Just as "Elohohim" can mean "God" as an idiom.
In the most literal sense it means "powerful".
Then it takes on more specific meanings based on context.
You are talking about Hebrew.  The existing Gospel is in Greek.  John
10:34  ἀπεκρίθη αὐτοῖς ὁ Ἰησοῦς οὐκ ἔστιν γεγραμμένον ἐν τῷ νόμῳ ὑμῶν
ὅτι ἐγὼ εἶπα θεοί ἐστε
θεοί is the plural of Theos, #G2316.  It has one meaning only, and
that meaning is NOT "judge."
81:6 ἐγὼ εἶπα θεοί
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?t=KJV&x=69&y=2&b=Psa&c=82&v=...
Theos.  Gods, not judges.  So either the ancient rabbis who translated
the LXX were wrong,
-- or Moshe is wrong.  Who do we vote for, folks?  No pushing, please.
TCross-
====================
Terry Cross claims that Jesus spoke Greek,
because Terry Cross claims that Jesus was a Greek Gentile,
not a Jew.
And now Terry Cross claims that the Greek translation of the Old
Testament is more reliable than the original Hebrew Old Testament.
No, I claim the translation of the Hebrew to Greek by the ancient
rabbis is more accurate than the translation from Hebrew to English by
the modern Moshe.
So no need to look at the original Hebrew of Psalm 82 that Jesus was
quoting?
So no need to look at the context of "judge...judge... judge" found
within Psalm 82?
Go look.  Please yourself.  But do not pretend your guess about the
original meaning is better than the ancient rabbis.
TCross
You give such credence to the "ancient rabbis" in this post. What's
up with that anomaly? Convenience?

Anyway, I've already given my opinion, which is not in this thread;
although the KJV Bible does so in three verses, many Bible
translations do not translate elohiym as judge(s), rather they
translate elohiym as God in those same three verses, and I think God
is the accurate translation, as even the Judge in Psalm 82 is God.

In the KJV Bible, elohiym is translated as 'judge' or 'judges' in only
three verses (I Sam. 2:25, Exo. 21:6, 22:8), and bibles other than
the KJV Bible (LITV, YLT, JPS, ASV, and Brenton's Septuagint
translation) translate elohiym in these cases as 'God', and not as
judge(s).
Linda Lee
2013-03-07 09:20:11 UTC
Post by Terry Cross
Quoted from:https://groups.google.com/group/alt.messianic/msg/465fcf2abbae6ccb?dm...
<snip>
That true of man generally, but this Psalm refers ...
<snip>
... so when God says of them, "ye are gods", I think it
refers to them being angels, angels who are "children
of the most High" (angels also being called the "SONS
of God" - Gen. 6:4 & Job 38:7)
Here Linda openly promotes her fallen angel theory
and yet Moshe remains silent unto her.
So when Jesus said it, he was refering to them as
fallen angels LMAO!!
And, Linda may still be selling her book for "gain"
which promotes this 'heresy'.
Are you serious? She wrote a book on that?
--
Peter
====================
Linda Lee's theory is a variation of
some beliefs that surround Genesis 6:2.
I disagree with Linda Lee's belief regarding that,
but Linda Lee's belief does not have any direct impact
on her salvation or the salvation of anyone else.
It is a "side issue".
You never did argue with me about that issue, even when we were at
odds years ago.
========================
"even when we were at odds years ago"
Do not believe it, folks.
Linda Lee and I never dated.
My ego prevents me from dating people who are prettier than I am.
========================
I wonder though what do you think about Christ/God saying to the
Israelites, "Ye are gods", when God said there were no other gods
besides Himself (Isa. 45:5, 6, & 21), and God also said that the
'other gods' weren't really gods at all, but were actually devils
(Deut. 32:17)?
=========================
This is just the way I see it.
Not written in stone.
And not written with your finger? Lol!
If you look up every instance in which that Hebrew word and related
Hebrew words occur in the Bible,
context determines definition.
Psalm 82:6http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Psa&c=82&v=6&t=NKJV#conc/6
 "gods" = "elohim"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H430&...
and "Most High" = "elyon"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5945...
The Hebrew words are just relative degrees of "judge".
So you say
אלהים 'elohiym means JUDGES???
Moshe, you are so full of it.
TCross
=================
"Elohim"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H430&...
"Elohim" can mean "judges" as an idiom.
Just as "Elohohim" can mean "God" as an idiom.
In the most literal sense it means "powerful".
Then it takes on more specific meanings based on context.
You are talking about Hebrew.  The existing Gospel is in Greek.  John
10:34  ἀπεκρίθη αὐτοῖς ὁ Ἰησοῦς οὐκ ἔστιν γεγραμμένον ἐν τῷ νόμῳ ὑμῶν
ὅτι ἐγὼ εἶπα θεοί ἐστε
θεοί is the plural of Theos, #G2316.  It has one meaning only, and
that meaning is NOT "judge."
81:6 ἐγὼ εἶπα θεοί
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?t=KJV&x=69&y=2&b=Psa&c=82&v=...
Theos.  Gods, not judges.  So either the ancient rabbis who translated
the LXX were wrong,
-- or Moshe is wrong.  Who do we vote for, folks?  No pushing, please.
TCross-
====================
Terry Cross claims that Jesus spoke Greek,
because Terry Cross claims that Jesus was a Greek Gentile,
not a Jew.
And now Terry Cross claims that the Greek translation of the Old
Testament is more reliable than the original Hebrew Old Testament.
No, I claim the translation of the Hebrew to Greek by the ancient
rabbis is more accurate than the translation from Hebrew to English by
the modern Moshe.
So no need to look at the original Hebrew of Psalm 82 that Jesus was
quoting?
So no need to look at the context of "judge...judge... judge" found
within Psalm 82?
Go look.  Please yourself.  But do not pretend your guess about the
original meaning is better than the ancient rabbis.
TCross
Why you're even talking about this issue is a mystery since you claim
God (YHWH) was merely a product of Moses' evil imagination.
moshe
2013-03-07 11:45:04 UTC
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Terry Cross
Quoted from:https://groups.google.com/group/alt.messianic/msg/465fcf2abbae6ccb?dm...
<snip>
That true of man generally, but this Psalm refers ...
<snip>
... so when God says of them, "ye are gods", I think it
refers to them being angels, angels who are "children
of the most High" (angels also being called the "SONS
of God" - Gen. 6:4 & Job 38:7)
Here Linda openly promotes her fallen angel theory
and yet Moshe remains silent unto her.
So when Jesus said it, he was refering to them as
fallen angels LMAO!!
And, Linda may still be selling her book for "gain"
which promotes this 'heresy'.
Are you serious? She wrote a book on that?
--
Peter
====================
Linda Lee's theory is a variation of
some beliefs that surround Genesis 6:2.
I disagree with Linda Lee's belief regarding that,
but Linda Lee's belief does not have any direct impact
on her salvation or the salvation of anyone else.
It is a "side issue".
You never did argue with me about that issue, even when we were at
odds years ago.
========================
"even when we were at odds years ago"
Do not believe it, folks.
Linda Lee and I never dated.
My ego prevents me from dating people who are prettier than I am.
========================
I wonder though what do you think about Christ/God saying to the
Israelites, "Ye are gods", when God said there were no other gods
besides Himself (Isa. 45:5, 6, & 21), and God also said that the
'other gods' weren't really gods at all, but were actually devils
(Deut. 32:17)?
=========================
This is just the way I see it.
Not written in stone.
And not written with your finger? Lol!
If you look up every instance in which that Hebrew word and related
Hebrew words occur in the Bible,
context determines definition.
Psalm 82:6http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Psa&c=82&v=6&t=NKJV#conc/6
 "gods" = "elohim"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H430&...
and "Most High" = "elyon"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5945...
The Hebrew words are just relative degrees of "judge".
So you say
אלהים 'elohiym means JUDGES???
Moshe, you are so full of it.
TCross
=================
"Elohim"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H430&...
"Elohim" can mean "judges" as an idiom.
Just as "Elohohim" can mean "God" as an idiom.
In the most literal sense it means "powerful".
Then it takes on more specific meanings based on context.
You are talking about Hebrew.  The existing Gospel is in Greek.  John
10:34  ἀπεκρίθη αὐτοῖς ὁ Ἰησοῦς οὐκ ἔστιν γεγραμμένον ἐν τῷ νόμῳ ὑμῶν
ὅτι ἐγὼ εἶπα θεοί ἐστε
θεοί is the plural of Theos, #G2316.  It has one meaning only, and
that meaning is NOT "judge."
81:6 ἐγὼ εἶπα θεοί
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?t=KJV&x=69&y=2&b=Psa&c=82&v=...
Theos.  Gods, not judges.  So either the ancient rabbis who translated
the LXX were wrong,
-- or Moshe is wrong.  Who do we vote for, folks?  No pushing, please.
TCross-
====================
Terry Cross claims that Jesus spoke Greek,
because Terry Cross claims that Jesus was a Greek Gentile,
not a Jew.
And now Terry Cross claims that the Greek translation of the Old
Testament is more reliable than the original Hebrew Old Testament.
No, I claim the translation of the Hebrew to Greek by the ancient
rabbis is more accurate than the translation from Hebrew to English by
the modern Moshe.
So no need to look at the original Hebrew of Psalm 82 that Jesus was
quoting?
So no need to look at the context of "judge...judge... judge" found
within Psalm 82?
Go look.  Please yourself.  But do not pretend your guess about the
original meaning is better than the ancient rabbis.
TCross
Why you're even talking about this issue is a mystery since you claim
God (YHWH) was merely a product of Moses' evil imagination.-
=================

Terry Cross always has the same motive:
Say or do whatever is necessary, always defying logic, so that she can
condemn Jews.

- moshe
moshe
2013-03-07 12:19:05 UTC
Post by Terry Cross
Quoted from:https://groups.google.com/group/alt.messianic/msg/465fcf2abbae6ccb?dm...
<snip>
That true of man generally, but this Psalm refers ...
<snip>
... so when God says of them, "ye are gods", I think it
refers to them being angels, angels who are "children
of the most High" (angels also being called the "SONS
of God" - Gen. 6:4 & Job 38:7)
Here Linda openly promotes her fallen angel theory
and yet Moshe remains silent unto her.
So when Jesus said it, he was refering to them as
fallen angels LMAO!!
And, Linda may still be selling her book for "gain"
which promotes this 'heresy'.
Are you serious? She wrote a book on that?
--
Peter
====================
Linda Lee's theory is a variation of
some beliefs that surround Genesis 6:2.
I disagree with Linda Lee's belief regarding that,
but Linda Lee's belief does not have any direct impact
on her salvation or the salvation of anyone else.
It is a "side issue".
You never did argue with me about that issue, even when we were at
odds years ago.
========================
"even when we were at odds years ago"
Do not believe it, folks.
Linda Lee and I never dated.
My ego prevents me from dating people who are prettier than I am.
========================
I wonder though what do you think about Christ/God saying to the
Israelites, "Ye are gods", when God said there were no other gods
besides Himself (Isa. 45:5, 6, & 21), and God also said that the
'other gods' weren't really gods at all, but were actually devils
(Deut. 32:17)?
=========================
This is just the way I see it.
Not written in stone.
And not written with your finger? Lol!
If you look up every instance in which that Hebrew word and related
Hebrew words occur in the Bible,
context determines definition.
Psalm 82:6http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Psa&c=82&v=6&t=NKJV#conc/6
 "gods" = "elohim"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H430&...
and "Most High" = "elyon"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5945...
The Hebrew words are just relative degrees of "judge".
So you say
אלהים 'elohiym means JUDGES???
Moshe, you are so full of it.
TCross
=================
"Elohim"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H430&...
"Elohim" can mean "judges" as an idiom.
Just as "Elohohim" can mean "God" as an idiom.
In the most literal sense it means "powerful".
Then it takes on more specific meanings based on context.
You are talking about Hebrew.  The existing Gospel is in Greek.  John
10:34  ἀπεκρίθη αὐτοῖς ὁ Ἰησοῦς οὐκ ἔστιν γεγραμμένον ἐν τῷ νόμῳ ὑμῶν
ὅτι ἐγὼ εἶπα θεοί ἐστε
θεοί is the plural of Theos, #G2316.  It has one meaning only, and
that meaning is NOT "judge."
81:6 ἐγὼ εἶπα θεοί
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?t=KJV&x=69&y=2&b=Psa&c=82&v=...
Theos.  Gods, not judges.  So either the ancient rabbis who translated
the LXX were wrong,
-- or Moshe is wrong.  Who do we vote for, folks?  No pushing, please.
TCross-
====================
Terry Cross claims that Jesus spoke Greek,
because Terry Cross claims that Jesus was a Greek Gentile,
not a Jew.
And now Terry Cross claims that the Greek translation of the Old
Testament is more reliable than the original Hebrew Old Testament.
No, I claim the translation of the Hebrew to Greek by the ancient
rabbis is more accurate than the translation from Hebrew to English by
the modern Moshe.
So no need to look at the original Hebrew of Psalm 82 that Jesus was
quoting?
So no need to look at the context of "judge...judge... judge" found
within Psalm 82?
Go look.  Please yourself.  But do not pretend your guess about the
original meaning is better than the ancient rabbis.
TCross
You give such credence to the "ancient rabbis" in this post.  What's
up with that anomaly?  Convenience?
Anyway, I've already given my opinion, which is not in this thread;
although the KJV Bible does so in three verses, many Bible
translations do not translate elohiym as judge(s), rather they
translate elohiym as God in those same three verses, and I think God
is the accurate translation, as even the Judge in Psalm 82 is God.
In the KJV Bible, elohiym is translated as 'judge' or 'judges' in only
three verses  (I Sam. 2:25, Exo. 21:6, 22:8), and bibles other than
the KJV Bible (LITV, YLT, JPS, ASV, and Brenton's Septuagint
translation) translate elohiym in these cases as 'God', and not as
judge(s).- Hide quoted text -
===============

The basic meaning of "el" is power.
"elohim" i s"powers".

When used to refer to people of legal power,
it would mean "authority".

When used to refer to people who have legal power to decide your fate,
it would mean "judge".

When used to refer to the ultimate Heavenly Power and Authority and
Judge,
it would mean "God".

In Psalm 82, verses 1 and 2 and 8 use the verb "shafat"
which means "to judge",
and the other verses detail how man unfarly judges.

So there is no doubt that the main theme of Psalm 82
is God's good judging versus mans' bad judging.

So, in that context, "elohim" refers to authorities who judge,
but whether "elohim" is actually translated as "judges"
in Psalm 82is a matter of personal preference.
Even if a person does not translate "elohim" as "judges"
in Psalm 82, the context still shows that the "elohim"
are being bad judges.

- moshe
Terry Cross
2013-03-07 18:19:03 UTC
Post by Terry Cross
If you look up every instance in which that Hebrew word and related
Hebrew words occur in the Bible,
context determines definition.
Psalm 82:6http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Psa&c=82&v=6&t=NKJV#conc/6
"gods" = "elohim"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H430&...
and "Most High" = "elyon"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5945...
The Hebrew words are just relative degrees of "judge".
So you say
אלהים 'elohiym means JUDGES???
Moshe, you are so full of it.
TCross
=================
"Elohim"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H430&...
"Elohim" can mean "judges" as an idiom.
Just as "Elohohim" can mean "God" as an idiom.
In the most literal sense it means "powerful".
Then it takes on more specific meanings based on context.
You are talking about Hebrew. The existing Gospel is in Greek. John
10:34 ἀπεκρίθη αὐτοῖς ὁ Ἰησοῦς οὐκ ἔστιν γεγραμμένον ἐν τῷ νόμῳ ὑμῶν
ὅτι ἐγὼ εἶπα θεοί ἐστε
θεοί is the plural of Theos, #G2316. It has one meaning only, and
that meaning is NOT "judge."
81:6 ἐγὼ εἶπα θεοί
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?t=KJV&x=69&y=2&b=Psa&c=82&v=...
Theos. Gods, not judges. So either the ancient rabbis who translated
the LXX were wrong,
-- or Moshe is wrong. Who do we vote for, folks? No pushing, please.
TCross-
====================
Terry Cross claims that Jesus spoke Greek,
because Terry Cross claims that Jesus was a Greek Gentile,
not a Jew.
And now Terry Cross claims that the Greek translation of the Old
Testament is more reliable than the original Hebrew Old Testament.
No, Moshe. I claim that the the Greek translation of the Torah (LXX)
is more accurate for understanding the references Jesus used than YOUR
amateur translation of the Masoretic texts, which are admittedly
altered from the Hebrew of Jesus day.
So no need to look at the original Hebrew of Psalm 82 that Jesus was
quoting?
So no need to look at the context of "judge...judge... judge" found
within Psalm 82?
We are discussing John, not Psalms, and your translation is
ridiculous. If you change any of the mentions of "gods" in this text
to "judges," the conversation is non-sequitur.

John 10:
31 Then the Jews again took up stones, to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my
Father: for which of these works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For the good work we stone thee not,
but for blasphemy, and that thou being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your Law, I said, Ye are
gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God was given, and
the Scripture cannot be broken,
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the
world, Thou blasphemest, because I said, I am the Son of God?
37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38 But if I do, then though ye believe not me, yet believe the works,
that ye may know and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

TCross
moshe
2013-03-08 02:09:35 UTC
If you look up every instance in which that Hebrew word and related
Hebrew words occur in the Bible,
context determines definition.
Psalm 82:6http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Psa&c=82&v=6&t=NKJV#conc/6
 "gods" = "elohim"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H430&...
and "Most High" = "elyon"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5945...
The Hebrew words are just relative degrees of "judge".
So you say
אלהים 'elohiym means JUDGES???
Moshe, you are so full of it.
TCross
=================
"Elohim"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H430&...
"Elohim" can mean "judges" as an idiom.
Just as "Elohohim" can mean "God" as an idiom.
In the most literal sense it means "powerful".
Then it takes on more specific meanings based on context.
You are talking about Hebrew.  The existing Gospel is in Greek.  John
10:34  ἀπεκρίθη αὐτοῖς ὁ Ἰησοῦς οὐκ ἔστιν γεγραμμένον ἐν τῷ νόμῳ ὑμῶν
ὅτι ἐγὼ εἶπα θεοί ἐστε
θεοί is the plural of Theos, #G2316.  It has one meaning only, and
that meaning is NOT "judge."
81:6 ἐγὼ εἶπα θεοί
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?t=KJV&x=69&y=2&b=Psa&c=82&v=...
Theos.  Gods, not judges.  So either the ancient rabbis who translated
the LXX were wrong,
-- or Moshe is wrong.  Who do we vote for, folks?  No pushing, please.
TCross-
====================
Terry Cross claims that Jesus spoke Greek,
because Terry Cross claims that Jesus was a Greek Gentile,
not a Jew.
And now Terry Cross claims that the Greek translation of the Old
Testament is more reliable than the original Hebrew Old Testament.
No, Moshe.  I claim that the the Greek translation of the Torah (LXX)
is more accurate for understanding the references Jesus used than YOUR
amateur translation of the Masoretic texts, which are admittedly
altered from the Hebrew of Jesus day.
So no need to look at the original Hebrew of Psalm 82 that Jesus was
quoting?
So no need to look at the context of "judge...judge... judge" found
within Psalm 82?
We are discussing John, not Psalms, and your translation is
ridiculous.  If you change any of the mentions of "gods" in this text
to "judges," the conversation is non-sequitur.
31 Then the Jews again took up stones, to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my
Father: for which of these works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For the good work we stone thee not,
but for blasphemy, and that thou being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your Law, I said, Ye are
gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God was given, and
the Scripture cannot be broken,
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the
world, Thou blasphemest, because I said, I am the Son of God?
37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38 But if I do, then though ye believe not me, yet believe the works,
that ye may know and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
TCross
====================

Jesus's conversational language with his disciples would have been
Aramaic.

When Jesus quoted Scripture, Jesus quoted in the original Biblical
Hebrew and Aramaic (the latter books of the Old Testament contained
much Aramaic).

So when Terry Cross relies on an English translation of a Greek
translation of the Hebrew originals,
to "prove" what the originals said,
that is ridiculous.

I am in complete agreement with the ancient rabbis about what the raw
words are and what the raw meanings are,
but the nuances in the original text can lead to several different
translations which are all "correct".

The entire Psalm 82 is about *judges* who *judge*,
and other Bible verses explicitly have "elohim"
translated as "judges" because the context warrants it.

Even people who want to translate the last word of Psalm 82:1
as "gods" do so while acknowledging that the people
being referred to are not literally "gods".

So when Terry Cross said that I was "full of it"
for translating "elohim" as "judges" rather than "gods",
Terry Cross was being dishonest again.

- moshe
Terry Cross
2013-03-08 04:53:05 UTC
If you look up every instance in which that Hebrew word and related
Hebrew words occur in the Bible,
context determines definition.
Psalm 82:6http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Psa&c=82&v=6&t=NKJV#conc/6
 "gods" = "elohim"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H430&...
and "Most High" = "elyon"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5945...
The Hebrew words are just relative degrees of "judge".
So you say
אלהים 'elohiym means JUDGES???
Moshe, you are so full of it.
TCross
=================
"Elohim"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H430&...
"Elohim" can mean "judges" as an idiom.
Just as "Elohohim" can mean "God" as an idiom.
In the most literal sense it means "powerful".
Then it takes on more specific meanings based on context.
You are talking about Hebrew.  The existing Gospel is in Greek.  John
10:34  ἀπεκρίθη αὐτοῖς ὁ Ἰησοῦς οὐκ ἔστιν γεγραμμένον ἐν τῷ νόμῳ ὑμῶν
ὅτι ἐγὼ εἶπα θεοί ἐστε
θεοί is the plural of Theos, #G2316.  It has one meaning only, and
that meaning is NOT "judge."
81:6 ἐγὼ εἶπα θεοί
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?t=KJV&x=69&y=2&b=Psa&c=82&v=...
Theos.  Gods, not judges.  So either the ancient rabbis who translated
the LXX were wrong,
-- or Moshe is wrong.  Who do we vote for, folks?  No pushing, please.
TCross-
====================
Terry Cross claims that Jesus spoke Greek,
because Terry Cross claims that Jesus was a Greek Gentile,
not a Jew.
And now Terry Cross claims that the Greek translation of the Old
Testament is more reliable than the original Hebrew Old Testament.
No, Moshe.  I claim that the the Greek translation of the Torah (LXX)
is more accurate for understanding the references Jesus used than YOUR
amateur translation of the Masoretic texts, which are admittedly
altered from the Hebrew of Jesus day.
So no need to look at the original Hebrew of Psalm 82 that Jesus was
quoting?
So no need to look at the context of "judge...judge... judge" found
within Psalm 82?
We are discussing John, not Psalms, and your translation is
ridiculous.  If you change any of the mentions of "gods" in this text
to "judges," the conversation is non-sequitur.
31 Then the Jews again took up stones, to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my
Father: for which of these works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For the good work we stone thee not,
but for blasphemy, and that thou being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your Law, I said, Ye are
gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God was given, and
the Scripture cannot be broken,
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the
world, Thou blasphemest, because I said, I am the Son of God?
37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38 But if I do, then though ye believe not me, yet believe the works,
that ye may know and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
TCross
====================
Jesus's conversational language with his disciples would have been
Aramaic.
When Jesus quoted Scripture, Jesus quoted in the original Biblical
Hebrew and Aramaic (the latter books of the Old Testament contained
much Aramaic).
So when Terry Cross relies on an English translation of a Greek
translation of the Hebrew originals,
to "prove" what the originals said,
that is ridiculous.
I am in complete agreement with the ancient rabbis about what the raw
words are and what the raw meanings are,
but the nuances in the original text can lead to several different
translations which are all "correct".
The entire Psalm 82 is about *judges* who *judge*,
and other Bible verses explicitly have "elohim"
translated as "judges" because the context warrants it.
Even people who want to translate the last word of Psalm 82:1
as "gods" do so while acknowledging that the people
being referred to are not literally "gods".
So when Terry Cross said that I was "full of it"
for translating "elohim" as "judges" rather than "gods",
Terry Cross was being dishonest again.
Yes, Moshe, you are full of yourself.
31 Then the Jews again took up stones, to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my
Father: for which of these works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For the good work we stone thee not,
but for blasphemy, and that thou being a man, makest thyself Judge.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your Law, I said, Ye are
judges?
35 If he called them judges, unto whom the word of Judge was given, and
the Scripture cannot be broken,
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the
world, Thou blasphemest, because I said, I am the Son of Judge?
37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38 But if I do, then though ye believe not me, yet believe the works,
that ye may know and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
You have (not) brought a whole lot of sense to that passage. How
tragic the original authors of LXX did not have your wisdom and good
sense.

TCross
moshe
2013-03-08 06:11:28 UTC
Post by Terry Cross
If you look up every instance in which that Hebrew word and related
Hebrew words occur in the Bible,
context determines definition.
Psalm 82:6http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Psa&c=82&v=6&t=NKJV#conc/6
 "gods" = "elohim"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H430&...
and "Most High" = "elyon"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5945...
The Hebrew words are just relative degrees of "judge".
So you say
אלהים 'elohiym means JUDGES???
Moshe, you are so full of it.
TCross
=================
"Elohim"http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H430&...
"Elohim" can mean "judges" as an idiom.
Just as "Elohohim" can mean "God" as an idiom.
In the most literal sense it means "powerful".
Then it takes on more specific meanings based on context.
You are talking about Hebrew.  The existing Gospel is in Greek.  John
10:34  ἀπεκρίθη αὐτοῖς ὁ Ἰησοῦς οὐκ ἔστιν γεγραμμένον ἐν τῷ νόμῳ ὑμῶν
ὅτι ἐγὼ εἶπα θεοί ἐστε
θεοί is the plural of Theos, #G2316.  It has one meaning only, and
that meaning is NOT "judge."
81:6 ἐγὼ εἶπα θεοί
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?t=KJV&x=69&y=2&b=Psa&c=82&v=...
Theos.  Gods, not judges.  So either the ancient rabbis who translated
the LXX were wrong,
-- or Moshe is wrong.  Who do we vote for, folks?  No pushing, please.
TCross-
====================
Terry Cross claims that Jesus spoke Greek,
because Terry Cross claims that Jesus was a Greek Gentile,
not a Jew.
And now Terry Cross claims that the Greek translation of the Old
Testament is more reliable than the original Hebrew Old Testament.
No, Moshe.  I claim that the the Greek translation of the Torah (LXX)
is more accurate for understanding the references Jesus used than YOUR
amateur translation of the Masoretic texts, which are admittedly
altered from the Hebrew of Jesus day.
So no need to look at the original Hebrew of Psalm 82 that Jesus was
quoting?
So no need to look at the context of "judge...judge... judge" found
within Psalm 82?
We are discussing John, not Psalms, and your translation is
ridiculous.  If you change any of the mentions of "gods" in this text
to "judges," the conversation is non-sequitur.
31 Then the Jews again took up stones, to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my
Father: for which of these works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For the good work we stone thee not,
but for blasphemy, and that thou being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your Law, I said, Ye are
gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God was given, and
the Scripture cannot be broken,
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the
world, Thou blasphemest, because I said, I am the Son of God?
37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38 But if I do, then though ye believe not me, yet believe the works,
that ye may know and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
TCross
====================
Jesus's conversational language with his disciples would have been
Aramaic.
When Jesus quoted Scripture, Jesus quoted in the original Biblical
Hebrew and Aramaic (the latter books of the Old Testament contained
much Aramaic).
So when Terry Cross relies on an English translation of a Greek
translation of the Hebrew originals,
to "prove" what the originals said,
that is ridiculous.
I am in complete agreement with the ancient rabbis about what the raw
words are and what the raw meanings are,
but the nuances in the original text can lead to several different
translations which are all "correct".
The entire Psalm 82 is about *judges* who *judge*,
and other Bible verses explicitly have "elohim"
translated as "judges" because the context warrants it.
Even people who want to translate the last word of Psalm 82:1
as "gods" do so while acknowledging that the people
being referred to are not literally "gods".
So when Terry Cross said that I was "full of it"
for translating "elohim" as "judges" rather than "gods",
Terry Cross was being dishonest again.
Yes, Moshe, you are full of yourself.
31 Then the Jews again took up stones, to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my
Father: for which of these works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For the good work we stone thee not,
but for blasphemy, and that thou being a man, makest thyself Judge.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your Law, I said, Ye are
judges?
35 If he called them judges, unto whom the word of Judge was given, and
the Scripture cannot be broken,
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the
world, Thou blasphemest, because I said, I am the Son of Judge?
37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38 But if I do, then though ye believe not me, yet believe the works,
that ye may know and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
You have (not) brought a whole lot of sense to that passage.  How
tragic the original authors of LXX did not have your wisdom and good
sense.
TCross-
=========================

EXAMPLE #1:


See Genesis 23:6.
"Hear us, my lord: thou art a mighty prince among us: in the choice
of
our sepulchres bury thy dead; none of us shall withhold from thee his
sepulchre, but that thou mayest bury thy dead."
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gen&c=23&v=6&t=KJV#6


In the Hebrew that is:
"Hear us, my lord: thou art an "elohim" prince among us: in the
choice
of our sepulchres bury thy dead; none of us shall withhold from thee
his sepulchre, but that thou mayest bury thy dead."


EXAMPLE #2:


See Genesis 30:8.
"And Rachel said, With great wrestlings have I wrestled with my
sister, and I have prevailed: and she called his name Naphtali."
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gen&c=30&t=KJV#8


In the Hebrew that is:
"And Rachel said, With "elohim" wrestlings have I wrestled with my
sister, and I have prevailed: and she called his name Naphtali.


EXAMPLE #3:


See Jonah 3:3.
"So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the
LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days'
journey."


In the Hebrew that is:
"So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the
LORD. Now Nineveh was an "elohim" great city of three days' journey."


EXAMPLE #4:


See Exodus 9:28.
"Intreat the LORD for it is enough that there be no more mighty
thunderings and hail; and I will let you go, and ye shall stay no
longer."
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Exd&c=9&v=28&t=KJV#28


In the Hebrew that is:
"Intreat the LORD for it is enough that there be no more "elohim"
thunderings and hail; and I will let you go, and ye shall stay no
longer."


EXAMPLE #5:


See Exodus 22:8-9 which has 3 instances of "elohim" as "judges":
"If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be
brought unto the judges, [to see] whether he have put his hand unto
his neighbour's goods.
For all manner of trespass, [whether it be] for ox, for ass, for
sheep, for raiment, [or] for any manner of lost thing, which
[another]
challengeth to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before
the
judges; [and] whom the judges shall condemn, he shall pay double unto
his neighbour."
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Exd&c=22&v=8&t=KJV#8


In the Hebrew that is:
"If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be
brought unto the "elohim", [to see] whether he have put his hand unto
his neighbour's goods.
For all manner of trespass, [whether it be] for ox, for ass, for
sheep, for raiment, [or] for any manner of lost thing, which
[another]
challengeth to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before
the
"elohim"; [and] whom the "elohoim" shall condemn, he shall pay double
unto his neighbour."


EXAMPLE #6:


See I Samuel 2:25:
"If one man sin against another, the judge shall judge him: but if a
man sin against the LORD, who shall intreat for him? Notwithstanding
they hearkened not unto the voice of their father, because the LORD
would slay them."
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Sa&c=2&v=25&t=KJV#25


In the Hebrew that is:
"If one man sin against another, the "elohim" shall judge him: but if
a man sin against the LORD, who shall intreat for him?
Notwithstanding
they hearkened not unto the voice of their father, because the LORD
would slay them."


EXAMPLE #7:


See I Samuel 14:15:
"And there was trembling in the host, in the field, and among all the
people: the garrison, and the spoilers, they also trembled, and the
earth quaked: so it was a very great trembling."


In the Hebrew that is:


"And there was trembling in the host, in the field, and among all the
people: the garrison, and the spoilers, they also trembled, and the
earth quaked: so it was a "elohim" trembling."


- moshe
Terry Cross
2013-03-08 19:02:45 UTC
Post by Terry Cross
Post by moshe
So when Terry Cross said that I was "full of it"
for translating "elohim" as "judges" rather than "gods",
Terry Cross was being dishonest again.
Yes, Moshe, you are full of yourself.
Post by moshe
31 Then the Jews again took up stones, to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my
Father: for which of these works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For the good work we stone thee not,
but for blasphemy, and that thou being a man, makest thyself Judge.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your Law, I said, Ye are
judges?
35 If he called them judges, unto whom the word of Judge was given, and
the Scripture cannot be broken,
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the
world, Thou blasphemest, because I said, I am the Son of Judge?
37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38 But if I do, then though ye believe not me, yet believe the works,
that ye may know and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
You have (not) brought a whole lot of sense to that passage.  How
tragic the original authors of LXX did not have your wisdom and good
sense.
TCross-
=========================
See Genesis 23:6.
"Hear us, my lord: thou art a mighty prince among us: in the choice of
our sepulchres bury thy dead; none of us shall withhold from thee his
sepulchre, but that thou mayest bury thy dead."http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gen&c=23&v=6&t=KJV#6
"Hear us, my lord: thou art an "elohim" prince among us: in the choice
of our sepulchres bury thy dead; none of us shall withhold from thee
his sepulchre, but that thou mayest bury thy dead."
See Genesis 30:8.
"And Rachel said, With great wrestlings have I wrestled with my
sister, and I have prevailed: and she called his name Naphtali."http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gen&c=30&t=KJV#8
"And Rachel said, With "elohim" wrestlings have I wrestled with my
sister, and I have prevailed: and she called his name Naphtali.
See Jonah 3:3.
"So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the
LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days'
journey."
"So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the
LORD. Now Nineveh was an "elohim" great city of three days' journey."
See Exodus 9:28.
"Intreat the LORD for it is enough that there be no more mighty
thunderings and hail; and I will let you go, and ye shall stay no
longer."http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Exd&c=9&v=28&t=KJV#28
"Intreat the LORD for it is enough that there be no more "elohim"
thunderings and hail; and I will let you go, and ye shall stay no
longer."
"If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be
brought unto the judges, [to see] whether he have put his hand unto
his neighbour's goods.
For all manner of trespass, [whether it be] for ox, for ass, for
sheep, for raiment, [or] for any manner of lost thing, which
[another]
challengeth to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before the
judges; [and] whom the judges shall condemn, he shall pay double unto
his neighbour."http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Exd&c=22&v=8&t=KJV#8
"If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be
brought unto the "elohim", [to see] whether he have put his hand unto
his neighbour's goods.
For all manner of trespass, [whether it be] for ox, for ass, for
sheep, for raiment, [or] for any manner of lost thing, which
[another]
challengeth to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before the
"elohim"; [and] whom the "elohoim" shall condemn, he shall pay double
unto his neighbour."
"If one man sin against another, the judge shall judge him: but if a
man sin against the LORD, who shall intreat for him? Notwithstanding
they hearkened not unto the voice of their father, because the LORD
would slay them."http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Sa&c=2&v=25&t=KJV#25
"If one man sin against another, the "elohim" shall judge him: but if
a man sin against the LORD, who shall intreat for him?
Notwithstanding
they hearkened not unto the voice of their father, because the LORD
would slay them."
"And there was trembling in the host, in the field, and among all the
people: the garrison, and the spoilers, they also trembled, and the
earth quaked: so it was a very great trembling."
"And there was trembling in the host, in the field, and among all the
people: the garrison, and the spoilers, they also trembled, and the
earth quaked: so it was a "elohim" trembling."
- moshe
You have lost us all in a digression, Moshe. Get to the point. How
would the Psalms verse saying "Ye are judges" explain Jesus statement
that he was a Son of God?

TCross

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