Discussion:
The Soncino
(too old to reply)
n***@live.com
2014-03-27 14:21:22 UTC
Permalink
I just read an article that uses The Soncino as their reference. I have never heard of this book and did some research on it. It is said to be the most accurate of translations.

Sam, or anyone, do you know of this book?

Anyhow, the article says the names such as "bright and moning star", "light bringer", "day star", etc. is a rank or function that the Being does.

That Christ will take this rank or position from Satan

I never thought of this....

The artcile is at http://ccg.org/english/s/p223.html
Pete
2014-03-27 20:50:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@live.com
I just read an article that uses The Soncino as their reference. I have
never heard of this book and did some research on it. It is said to be
the most accurate of translations.
Sam, or anyone, do you know of this book?
Anyhow, the article says the names such as "bright and moning star",
"light bringer", "day star", etc. is a rank or function that the Being
does.
That Christ will take this rank or position from Satan
I never thought of this....
The artcile is at http://ccg.org/english/s/p223.html
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
KJV

The Soncino renders Isaiah 14:12 as:

How thou art fallen from heaven O day-star, son of the morning!

How art thou cut down to the ground, that didst cast lots over the nations.


I believe those people are wrong in their conclusions, totally. But at this
point and place. Just keep in mind that satan can appear as the angel of
light to deceive even the elect of God it they are not vivilant and wary of
the evil one.
n***@live.com
2014-03-28 12:27:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pete
Post by n***@live.com
I just read an article that uses The Soncino as their reference. I have
never heard of this book and did some research on it. It is said to be
the most accurate of translations.
Sam, or anyone, do you know of this book?
Anyhow, the article says the names such as "bright and moning star",
"light bringer", "day star", etc. is a rank or function that the Being
does.
That Christ will take this rank or position from Satan
I never thought of this....
The artcile is at http://ccg.org/english/s/p223.html
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
KJV
How thou art fallen from heaven O day-star, son of the morning!
How art thou cut down to the ground, that didst cast lots over the nations.
I believe those people are wrong in their conclusions, totally. But at this
point and place. Just keep in mind that satan can appear as the angel of
light to deceive even the elect of God it they are not vivilant and wary of
the evil one.
###
I am looking for the truth.

Pete, I have a question. To learn the truth, the real truth, would you be willing to leave your comfort zone?
duke
2014-03-28 15:20:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Pete
Post by n***@live.com
I just read an article that uses The Soncino as their reference. I have
never heard of this book and did some research on it. It is said to be
the most accurate of translations.
Sam, or anyone, do you know of this book?
Anyhow, the article says the names such as "bright and moning star",
"light bringer", "day star", etc. is a rank or function that the Being
does.
That Christ will take this rank or position from Satan
I never thought of this....
The artcile is at http://ccg.org/english/s/p223.html
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
KJV
How thou art fallen from heaven O day-star, son of the morning!
How art thou cut down to the ground, that didst cast lots over the nations.
I believe those people are wrong in their conclusions, totally. But at this
point and place. Just keep in mind that satan can appear as the angel of
light to deceive even the elect of God it they are not vivilant and wary of
the evil one.
###
I am looking for the truth.
Pete, I have a question. To learn the truth, the real truth, would you be willing to leave your comfort zone?
This I gotta see.

duke, American-American
*****
The Obama Adminstration is a disgrace to America
and Americans. The lies, the lies, the lies.
*****
Pete
2014-03-28 15:25:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Pete
Post by n***@live.com
I just read an article that uses The Soncino as their reference. I have
never heard of this book and did some research on it. It is said to be
the most accurate of translations.
Sam, or anyone, do you know of this book?
Anyhow, the article says the names such as "bright and moning star",
"light bringer", "day star", etc. is a rank or function that the Being
does.
That Christ will take this rank or position from Satan
I never thought of this....
The artcile is at http://ccg.org/english/s/p223.html
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
KJV
How thou art fallen from heaven O day-star, son of the morning!
How art thou cut down to the ground, that didst cast lots over the nations.
I believe those people are wrong in their conclusions, totally. But at this
point and place. Just keep in mind that satan can appear as the angel of
light to deceive even the elect of God it they are not vivilant and wary of
the evil one.
###
I am looking for the truth.
Pete, I have a question. To learn the truth, the real truth, would you be
willing to leave your comfort zone?
Not fully knowing what you mean by that I can't say. But I can say this. My
Trust is in the Lord to lead me by His spirit. He has promised to lead me
into all truth. So with the Gods word and Him, that is my comfort zone. I
can learn from others since that is why He gives us teachers, etc. However,
if any deviate from the Lord's word, or go to some other source to present
an idea or "truth" my instincts are to be very wary.

The Word of God should be all sufficient, and when I have questions, which
is often, I ask the Lord to show me. He has never failed me.
n***@live.com
2014-03-28 19:41:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pete
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Pete
Post by n***@live.com
I just read an article that uses The Soncino as their reference. I have
never heard of this book and did some research on it. It is said to be
the most accurate of translations.
Sam, or anyone, do you know of this book?
Anyhow, the article says the names such as "bright and moning star",
"light bringer", "day star", etc. is a rank or function that the Being
does.
That Christ will take this rank or position from Satan
I never thought of this....
The artcile is at http://ccg.org/english/s/p223.html
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
KJV
How thou art fallen from heaven O day-star, son of the morning!
How art thou cut down to the ground, that didst cast lots over the nations.
I believe those people are wrong in their conclusions, totally. But at this
point and place. Just keep in mind that satan can appear as the angel of
light to deceive even the elect of God it they are not vivilant and wary of
the evil one.
###
I am looking for the truth.
Pete, I have a question. To learn the truth, the real truth, would you be
willing to leave your comfort zone?
Not fully knowing what you mean by that I can't say. But I can say this. My
Trust is in the Lord to lead me by His spirit. He has promised to lead me
into all truth. So with the Gods word and Him, that is my comfort zone. I
can learn from others since that is why He gives us teachers, etc. However,
if any deviate from the Lord's word, or go to some other source to present
an idea or "truth" my instincts are to be very wary.
The Word of God should be all sufficient, and when I have questions, which
is often, I ask the Lord to show me. He has never failed me.
###

Nothing deep....I'm just wondering why you would say what you did about the Soncino Books. These books are widely use by Jewish people as being the most accurate of translations. I looked it up on Ask.com 8-)

But instead you will go with what you have always used....because you are comfortable with it.

About what you wrote above....I use to want someone between me and God. Someone to say...God told me to tell you. I now don't accept that. I believe if God told them He can tell me. I now believe God will teach me....look at this.

44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, 'And they shall all be taught by God.' Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.
John 6:44-45 (NKJV)

13 All your children shall be taught by the Lord,
And great shall be the peace of your children.
Isaiah 54:13 (NKJV)

# But for God to teach me....I had to wipe the slate clean and start anew. I had so much false information....there was no other way.
Pete
2014-03-28 21:51:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Pete
Post by n***@live.com
Pete, I have a question. To learn the truth, the real truth, would you be
willing to leave your comfort zone?
Not fully knowing what you mean by that I can't say. But I can say this. My
Trust is in the Lord to lead me by His spirit. He has promised to lead me
into all truth. So with the Gods word and Him, that is my comfort zone. I
can learn from others since that is why He gives us teachers, etc. However,
if any deviate from the Lord's word, or go to some other source to present
an idea or "truth" my instincts are to be very wary.
The Word of God should be all sufficient, and when I have questions, which
is often, I ask the Lord to show me. He has never failed me.
###
Nothing deep....I'm just wondering why you would say what you did about
the Soncino Books. These books are widely use by Jewish people as being
the most accurate of translations. I looked it up on Ask.com 8-)
But instead you will go with what you have always used....because you are
comfortable with it.
I didn't realize you were speaking of Bible translations. I use multiple
versions. Some I stay away from like the plague, the ones by the Roman
Catholic Church and the various ones from the JW's. Also those of W&H.

But even so when it gets to the bottom line I follow the Lords teachings as
He has shown me where some errors are along the way.
Post by n***@live.com
About what you wrote above....I use to want someone between me and God.
Someone to say...God told me to tell you. I now don't accept that. I
believe if God told them He can tell me. I now believe God will teach
me....look at this.
Jesus is our Saviour and soon coming King. He redeemed us so certainly we
can have full trust and confidence.
Post by n***@live.com
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I
will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets,
'And they shall all be taught by God.' Therefore everyone who has heard
and learned from the Father comes to Me. John 6:44-45 (NKJV)
13 All your children shall be taught by the Lord,
And great shall be the peace of your children.
Isaiah 54:13 (NKJV)
# But for God to teach me....I had to wipe the slate clean and start
anew. I had so much false information....there was no other way.
Yes, we all must do that at some point. The Lord is wonderful, and being
our Mediator He alone justifies us, before His Father and our Father in
heaven. Gods Holy Spirit forwards our thinking and desires straight to God
so that He can work in us both to will and desire of Him.

Gods Spirit related the sighs and discomforts of Lot while in Sodom,
because of all the Great Evil there. God listened and then destroyed the
great evil. So you should know you are in His mind as a believer, always.
n***@live.com
2014-03-28 22:24:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pete
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Pete
Post by n***@live.com
Pete, I have a question. To learn the truth, the real truth, would you be
willing to leave your comfort zone?
Not fully knowing what you mean by that I can't say. But I can say this. My
Trust is in the Lord to lead me by His spirit. He has promised to lead me
into all truth. So with the Gods word and Him, that is my comfort zone. I
can learn from others since that is why He gives us teachers, etc. However,
if any deviate from the Lord's word, or go to some other source to present
an idea or "truth" my instincts are to be very wary.
The Word of God should be all sufficient, and when I have questions, which
is often, I ask the Lord to show me. He has never failed me.
###
Nothing deep....I'm just wondering why you would say what you did about
the Soncino Books. These books are widely use by Jewish people as being
the most accurate of translations. I looked it up on Ask.com 8-)
But instead you will go with what you have always used....because you are
comfortable with it.
I didn't realize you were speaking of Bible translations. I use multiple
versions. Some I stay away from like the plague, the ones by the Roman
Catholic Church and the various ones from the JW's. Also those of W&H.
But even so when it gets to the bottom line I follow the Lords teachings as
He has shown me where some errors are along the way.
Post by n***@live.com
About what you wrote above....I use to want someone between me and God.
Someone to say...God told me to tell you. I now don't accept that. I
believe if God told them He can tell me. I now believe God will teach
me....look at this.
Jesus is our Saviour and soon coming King. He redeemed us so certainly we
can have full trust and confidence.
###

In Him....not in man
###
Post by Pete
Post by n***@live.com
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I
will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets,
'And they shall all be taught by God.' Therefore everyone who has heard
and learned from the Father comes to Me. John 6:44-45 (NKJV)
13 All your children shall be taught by the Lord,
And great shall be the peace of your children.
Isaiah 54:13 (NKJV)
# But for God to teach me....I had to wipe the slate clean and start
anew. I had so much false information....there was no other way.
Yes, we all must do that at some point. The Lord is wonderful, and being
our Mediator He alone justifies us, before His Father and our Father in
heaven. Gods Holy Spirit forwards our thinking and desires straight to God
so that He can work in us both to will and desire of Him.
###
I have never heard it put this way.... it has given me something to think about.
###
Post by Pete
Gods Spirit related the sighs and discomforts of Lot while in Sodom,
because of all the Great Evil there. God listened and then destroyed the
great evil. So you should know you are in His mind as a believer, always.
###

Thank you for your reply, Pete
duke
2014-03-29 16:18:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Pete
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Pete
Post by n***@live.com
Pete, I have a question. To learn the truth, the real truth, would you be
willing to leave your comfort zone?
Not fully knowing what you mean by that I can't say. But I can say this. My
Trust is in the Lord to lead me by His spirit. He has promised to lead me
into all truth. So with the Gods word and Him, that is my comfort zone. I
can learn from others since that is why He gives us teachers, etc. However,
if any deviate from the Lord's word, or go to some other source to present
an idea or "truth" my instincts are to be very wary.
The Word of God should be all sufficient, and when I have questions, which
is often, I ask the Lord to show me. He has never failed me.
###
Nothing deep....I'm just wondering why you would say what you did about
the Soncino Books. These books are widely use by Jewish people as being
the most accurate of translations. I looked it up on Ask.com 8-)
But instead you will go with what you have always used....because you are
comfortable with it.
I didn't realize you were speaking of Bible translations. I use multiple
versions. Some I stay away from like the plague, the ones by the Roman
Catholic Church and the various ones from the JW's. Also those of W&H.
But even so when it gets to the bottom line I follow the Lords teachings as
He has shown me where some errors are along the way.
Post by n***@live.com
About what you wrote above....I use to want someone between me and God.
Someone to say...God told me to tell you. I now don't accept that. I
believe if God told them He can tell me. I now believe God will teach
me....look at this.
Jesus is our Saviour and soon coming King. He redeemed us so certainly we
can have full trust and confidence.
###
In Him....not in man
###
Post by Pete
Post by n***@live.com
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I
will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets,
'And they shall all be taught by God.' Therefore everyone who has heard
and learned from the Father comes to Me. John 6:44-45 (NKJV)
13 All your children shall be taught by the Lord,
And great shall be the peace of your children.
Isaiah 54:13 (NKJV)
# But for God to teach me....I had to wipe the slate clean and start
anew. I had so much false information....there was no other way.
Yes, we all must do that at some point. The Lord is wonderful, and being
our Mediator He alone justifies us, before His Father and our Father in
heaven. Gods Holy Spirit forwards our thinking and desires straight to God
so that He can work in us both to will and desire of Him.
###
I have never heard it put this way.... it has given me something to think about.
###
We Catholics get that in the Sacrament of Confession.
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Pete
Gods Spirit related the sighs and discomforts of Lot while in Sodom,
because of all the Great Evil there. God listened and then destroyed the
great evil. So you should know you are in His mind as a believer, always.
###
Thank you for your reply, Pete
duke, American-American
*****
The Obama Adminstration is a disgrace to America
and Americans. The lies, the lies, the lies.
*****
n***@live.com
2014-03-29 17:14:28 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by duke
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Pete
Yes, we all must do that at some point. The Lord is wonderful, and being
our Mediator He alone justifies us, before His Father and our Father in
heaven. Gods Holy Spirit forwards our thinking and desires straight to God
so that He can work in us both to will and desire of Him.
###
I have never heard it put this way.... it has given me something to think about.
###
We Catholics get that in the Sacrament of Confession.
###

When you confess your sins to God.....as He is the only One with the power to forgive?
duke
2014-03-30 20:09:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@live.com
<snip>
Post by duke
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Pete
Yes, we all must do that at some point. The Lord is wonderful, and being
our Mediator He alone justifies us, before His Father and our Father in
heaven. Gods Holy Spirit forwards our thinking and desires straight to God
so that He can work in us both to will and desire of Him.
###
I have never heard it put this way.... it has given me something to think about.
###
We Catholics get that in the Sacrament of Confession.
###
When you confess your sins to God.....as He is the only One with the power to forgive?
And yet he assigned a man, his son, to deliver Christianity to us, who then
assigned men to be the leaders of his new Chruch on earth, to administer the 7
sacraments and to be the teaching authority and foundational base of said
Church.

Jesus specifically revealed that he was assigning man to forgive sins on the
first afternoon of his resurrection . John 20:22-23. Men don't do it, but God
administers said forgiveness thru priests.

duke, American-American
*****
The Obama Adminstration is a disgrace to America
and Americans. The lies, the lies, the lies.
*****
n***@live.com
2014-03-29 10:56:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pete
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Pete
Post by n***@live.com
Pete, I have a question. To learn the truth, the real truth, would you be
willing to leave your comfort zone?
Not fully knowing what you mean by that I can't say. But I can say this. My
Trust is in the Lord to lead me by His spirit. He has promised to lead me
into all truth. So with the Gods word and Him, that is my comfort zone. I
can learn from others since that is why He gives us teachers, etc. However,
if any deviate from the Lord's word, or go to some other source to present
an idea or "truth" my instincts are to be very wary.
The Word of God should be all sufficient, and when I have questions, which
is often, I ask the Lord to show me. He has never failed me.
###
Nothing deep....I'm just wondering why you would say what you did about
the Soncino Books. These books are widely use by Jewish people as being
the most accurate of translations. I looked it up on Ask.com 8-)
But instead you will go with what you have always used....because you are
comfortable with it.
I didn't realize you were speaking of Bible translations. I use multiple
versions. Some I stay away from like the plague, the ones by the Roman
Catholic Church and the various ones from the JW's. Also those of W&H.
###

These Books are not commentaries, Pete. They are books translated from Hebrew to English. And it is said they are the most accurate in thier translation to the Hebrew language.

Commentaries are nothing more than mans take on God's word.

I know Catholic's have their own Bibles, but didn't know JW did too.
duke
2014-03-29 16:16:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pete
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Pete
Post by n***@live.com
Pete, I have a question. To learn the truth, the real truth, would you be
willing to leave your comfort zone?
Not fully knowing what you mean by that I can't say. But I can say this. My
Trust is in the Lord to lead me by His spirit. He has promised to lead me
into all truth. So with the Gods word and Him, that is my comfort zone. I
can learn from others since that is why He gives us teachers, etc. However,
if any deviate from the Lord's word, or go to some other source to present
an idea or "truth" my instincts are to be very wary.
The Word of God should be all sufficient, and when I have questions, which
is often, I ask the Lord to show me. He has never failed me.
###
Nothing deep....I'm just wondering why you would say what you did about
the Soncino Books. These books are widely use by Jewish people as being
the most accurate of translations. I looked it up on Ask.com 8-)
But instead you will go with what you have always used....because you are
comfortable with it.
I didn't realize you were speaking of Bible translations. I use multiple
versions. Some I stay away from like the plague, the ones by the Roman
Catholic Church and the various ones from the JW's. Also those of W&H.
Then you are demonstrating your unhindered ignorance of scripture. All valid
bibles say the same thing. Scripture was given to Catholics 2000 years ago and
not 1600 years later in the protest_ant church.
Post by Pete
But even so when it gets to the bottom line I follow the Lords teachings as
He has shown me where some errors are along the way.
No, you don't.

MASS:
Do this in memory of me - Mat 26:26-29, Mark 14:22-26, Luke 22:14-20,
1Cor 11:23-25 (11-34).

SACRAMENTS:
Baptism - John 3:5-6, Mat 28:19, Hebrew 2:14-15
Holy Eucharist -Mat 26:26-29, Mark 14:22-26, Luke 22:14-20,
1Cor 11:23-25 (11-34).
Confession - John 20:22-23, Mat 9:2-8
Matrimony - Mat 19:4-6, Mark 10:5-9, Ephesians 5:31
Confirmation - Ephesians 1:13-14, Acts 8:14-17, Acts 19:5-6,
Holy Orders - Acts 13:3 & 14:23, John 20:22, 1 & 2 Tim
Anointing of the Sick - Mark 6:12-13, John 5:14

PAPACY:
Mat 16:13-19 (Pope), Mat 28:16-20 (Teaching), Eph 2:19-20 (Base)
Post by Pete
Post by n***@live.com
About what you wrote above....I use to want someone between me and God.
Someone to say...God told me to tell you. I now don't accept that. I
believe if God told them He can tell me. I now believe God will teach
me....look at this.
Jesus is our Saviour and soon coming King. He redeemed us so certainly we
can have full trust and confidence.
Post by n***@live.com
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I
will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets,
'And they shall all be taught by God.' Therefore everyone who has heard
and learned from the Father comes to Me. John 6:44-45 (NKJV)
13 All your children shall be taught by the Lord,
And great shall be the peace of your children.
Isaiah 54:13 (NKJV)
# But for God to teach me....I had to wipe the slate clean and start
anew. I had so much false information....there was no other way.
Yes, we all must do that at some point. The Lord is wonderful, and being
our Mediator He alone justifies us, before His Father and our Father in
heaven. Gods Holy Spirit forwards our thinking and desires straight to God
so that He can work in us both to will and desire of Him.
Gods Spirit related the sighs and discomforts of Lot while in Sodom,
because of all the Great Evil there. God listened and then destroyed the
great evil. So you should know you are in His mind as a believer, always.
duke, American-American
*****
The Obama Adminstration is a disgrace to America
and Americans. The lies, the lies, the lies.
*****
Up from the Abyss
2014-03-30 05:45:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pete
Post by n***@live.com
###
Nothing deep....I'm just wondering why you would say
what you did about the Soncino Books. These books
are widely use by Jewish people as being the most
accurate of translations. I looked it up on Ask.com 8-)
But instead you will go with what you have always
used....because you are comfortable with it.
I didn't realize you were speaking of Bible translations.
Really? How could you have missed that?

Apparently, you failed to comprehend that which you
were responding unto.
Post by Pete
I use multiple versions.
Of which, are *all* subject to the inflected beliefs
of the translators.
Post by Pete
Some I stay away from like the plague, the ones by
the Roman Catholic Church and the various ones
from the JW's. Also those of W&H.
So, you don't like their inflected beliefs.

<snip>
duke
2014-03-29 16:13:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pete
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Pete
Post by n***@live.com
I just read an article that uses The Soncino as their reference. I have
never heard of this book and did some research on it. It is said to be
the most accurate of translations.
Sam, or anyone, do you know of this book?
Anyhow, the article says the names such as "bright and moning star",
"light bringer", "day star", etc. is a rank or function that the Being
does.
That Christ will take this rank or position from Satan
I never thought of this....
The artcile is at http://ccg.org/english/s/p223.html
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
KJV
How thou art fallen from heaven O day-star, son of the morning!
How art thou cut down to the ground, that didst cast lots over the nations.
I believe those people are wrong in their conclusions, totally. But at this
point and place. Just keep in mind that satan can appear as the angel of
light to deceive even the elect of God it they are not vivilant and wary of
the evil one.
###
I am looking for the truth.
Pete, I have a question. To learn the truth, the real truth, would you be
willing to leave your comfort zone?
Not fully knowing what you mean by that I can't say. But I can say this. My
Trust is in the Lord to lead me by His spirit. He has promised to lead me
into all truth. So with the Gods word and Him, that is my comfort zone. I
can learn from others since that is why He gives us teachers, etc. However,
if any deviate from the Lord's word, or go to some other source to present
an idea or "truth" my instincts are to be very wary.
The Word of God should be all sufficient, and when I have questions, which
is often, I ask the Lord to show me. He has never failed me.
No, but you failed him.

Growing beyond a self-centered spirituality

We are born spiritually in the sacrament of Baptism. We become sharers in the
divine life of the most Blessed Trinity. We begin to live a supernatural life.
As we practice the virtues of faith and hope and love and as we unite with
Christ in His Church in offering worship to God, we also grow in grace and
goodness.

But at this stage our spiritual life, like the life of a child, is largely
self-centered. We tend to be preoccupied with the needs of our own soul, with
the effort to "be good." We cannot be wholly self-centered, of course-not if we
understand what it means to be a member of Christ's Mystical Body, and not if we
understand the significance of the Mass.

But in general our religious life does revolve around self

Living for others

Then we are confirmed

We receive a special grace by which our faith is deepened and strengthened, so
that it will be strong enough not only for our own needs but for the needs of
others with whom we shall try to share it

With the onset of adolescence a child begins to assume, progressively more and
more, the responsibilities of adulthood. He begins to see his place in the
total family picture and in the community at large.

******Similarly, the confirmed Christian begins to see more clearly (or ought
to) his responsibility to Christ for his neighbor. He becomes deeply concerned
(or ought to) with the welfare of Christ-in-the-world-which is the Church-and
the welfare of Christ-in-his-neighbor.*****

It is in this sense that Confirmation is a spiritual "growing up."

MASS:
Do this in memory of me - Mat 26:26-29, Mark 14:22-26, Luke 22:14-20,
1Cor 11:23-25 (11-34).

SACRAMENTS:
Baptism - John 3:5-6, Mat 28:19, Hebrew 2:14-15
Holy Eucharist -Mat 26:26-29, Mark 14:22-26, Luke 22:14-20,
1Cor 11:23-25 (11-34).
Confession - John 20:22-23, Mat 9:2-8
Matrimony - Mat 19:4-6, Mark 10:5-9, Ephesians 5:31
Confirmation - Ephesians 1:13-14, Acts 8:14-17, Acts 19:5-6,
Holy Orders - Acts 13:3 & 14:23, John 20:22, 1 & 2 Tim
Anointing of the Sick - Mark 6:12-13, John 5:14

PAPACY:
Mat 16:13-19 (Pope), Mat 28:16-20 (Teaching), Eph 2:19-20 (Base)

duke, American-American
*****
The Obama Adminstration is a disgrace to America
and Americans. The lies, the lies, the lies.
*****
Pete
2014-03-30 05:22:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
But in general our religious life does revolve around self
You show that in your posts.
duke
2014-03-30 20:10:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pete
Post by duke
But in general our religious life does revolve around self
You show that in your posts.
God's name is not self. But you, self, tells God how to run his religion.

duke, American-American
*****
The Obama Adminstration is a disgrace to America
and Americans. The lies, the lies, the lies.
*****
Pete
2014-03-30 21:41:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
Post by Pete
Post by duke
But in general our religious life does revolve around self
You show that in your posts.
God's name is not self. But you, self, tells God how to run his religion.
And what religion is that?
duke
2014-04-09 11:11:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pete
Post by duke
Post by Pete
Post by duke
But in general our religious life does revolve around self
You show that in your posts.
God's name is not self. But you, self, tells God how to run his religion.
And what religion is that?
I just told you.

The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Up from the Abyss
2014-03-30 05:45:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@live.com
I just read an article that uses The Soncino as their reference.
I have never heard of this book and did some research on it.
It is said to be the most accurate of translations.
Sam, or anyone, do you know of this book?
Last I knew, "Soncino" was a 14 volume set that is
more of a commentary along with said translation.

There is also, a "Soncino" translation of Talmud.
Which is also highly touted, but that is not the
"Bible".

Nancy, *all* translations claim accuracy, or that
their translation is one of the best. And there are
those, who claim that such and such translation
is the most accurate. Take a look at the
KJV onlyists, they tout and claim it is the most
accurate.

And:

*All* translations, are "flavoured" by the inflected
beliefs of the translators. ***All*** of them.

I am not saying that "Soncino" is not accurate,
however, neither am I giving it a nod of approval.

It is a "flavour", just like any other "flavour".
Baskin Robbins had 31 flavours of ice cream
once upon a time. We have a multitude of
"flavours" of translations as well.

Just so that you know, I have read several Jewish
"flavours". They are "flavours", just like any other.
Post by n***@live.com
Anyhow, the article says the names such as "bright
and moning star", "light bringer", "day star", etc. is
a rank or function that the Being does.
I didn't read the article, but I do know that to be
correct.

Thus, why said one, heylel, is ben_shakhar, son of
the dawn. Or, son of the first light. Thus, secondary
or lower in rank / position, to "dawn" or the "first light".

As for the whole "Jesus" and "Satan" are brothers,
that is mere bullshit in my opinion. Colossians
[cf Col 1:15-18] clearly states that all things, both in
heaven and on earth, were created for and through
him [Jesus], for he is *before* all things.

That includes the "satan" character. Thus, if you
believe that Yeshayahu [Isaiah] 14 is refering to
the "satan" character, that same character is clearly
described as being ben_shakhar, son of the dawn,
or son of the first light. That "first light", the "dawn"
of creation, was the light created in
Bere'shit [Gen] 1:3. Before the heaven and earth.

Before any of the host of the heavens, whether
angel, archangel, cherubim or seraphim.


Just as the "wisdom" of Mishle [Proverbs] 8, was
brought forth, before the heaven and earth.

<snip>
n***@live.com
2014-03-30 11:32:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Up from the Abyss
Post by n***@live.com
I just read an article that uses The Soncino as their reference.
I have never heard of this book and did some research on it.
It is said to be the most accurate of translations.
Sam, or anyone, do you know of this book?
Last I knew, "Soncino" was a 14 volume set that is
more of a commentary along with said translation.
There is also, a "Soncino" translation of Talmud.
Which is also highly touted, but that is not the
"Bible".
Nancy, *all* translations claim accuracy, or that
their translation is one of the best. And there are
those, who claim that such and such translation
is the most accurate. Take a look at the
KJV onlyists, they tout and claim it is the most
accurate.
*All* translations, are "flavoured" by the inflected
beliefs of the translators. ***All*** of them.
I am not saying that "Soncino" is not accurate,
however, neither am I giving it a nod of approval.
It is a "flavour", just like any other "flavour".
Baskin Robbins had 31 flavours of ice cream
once upon a time. We have a multitude of
"flavours" of translations as well.
Just so that you know, I have read several Jewish
"flavours". They are "flavours", just like any other.
###
Dang, I thought if the Jewish people translated it into English it would be more correct.
###
Post by Up from the Abyss
Post by n***@live.com
Anyhow, the article says the names such as "bright
and moning star", "light bringer", "day star", etc. is
a rank or function that the Being does.
I didn't read the article, but I do know that to be
correct.
Thus, why said one, heylel, is ben_shakhar, son of
the dawn. Or, son of the first light. Thus, secondary
or lower in rank / position, to "dawn" or the "first light".
As for the whole "Jesus" and "Satan" are brothers,
that is mere bullshit in my opinion. Colossians
[cf Col 1:15-18] clearly states that all things, both in
heaven and on earth, were created for and through
him [Jesus], for he is *before* all things.
That includes the "satan" character. Thus, if you
believe that Yeshayahu [Isaiah] 14 is refering to
the "satan" character, that same character is clearly
described as being ben_shakhar, son of the dawn,
or son of the first light. That "first light", the "dawn"
of creation, was the light created in
Bere'shit [Gen] 1:3. Before the heaven and earth.
Before any of the host of the heavens, whether
angel, archangel, cherubim or seraphim.
Just as the "wisdom" of Mishle [Proverbs] 8, was
brought forth, before the heaven and earth.
<snip>
Up from the Abyss
2014-03-31 01:27:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Up from the Abyss
Post by n***@live.com
I just read an article that uses The Soncino as their reference.
I have never heard of this book and did some research on it.
It is said to be the most accurate of translations.
Sam, or anyone, do you know of this book?
Last I knew, "Soncino" was a 14 volume set that is
more of a commentary along with said translation.
There is also, a "Soncino" translation of Talmud.
Which is also highly touted, but that is not the
"Bible".
Nancy, *all* translations claim accuracy, or that
their translation is one of the best. And there are
those, who claim that such and such translation
is the most accurate. Take a look at the
KJV onlyists, they tout and claim it is the most
accurate.
*All* translations, are "flavoured" by the inflected
beliefs of the translators. ***All*** of them.
I am not saying that "Soncino" is not accurate,
however, neither am I giving it a nod of approval.
It is a "flavour", just like any other "flavour".
Baskin Robbins had 31 flavours of ice cream
once upon a time. We have a multitude of
"flavours" of translations as well.
Just so that you know, I have read several Jewish
"flavours". They are "flavours", just like any other.
###
Dang, I thought if the Jewish people translated it into
English it would be more correct.
###
I had a feeling that was your hope. You might look into
the SET [Stone Edition TaNaKh], it also was highly
touted. It is a single volume, and it is a little lower in price.

You can also use the chabad website.

http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8165


The website, also has commentary by Rashi. You
just have to turn it on with the press of a button.

I would suggest looking into the above, before you
invest in a slightly higher priced, but also, incredibly
bulky 14 volume set. It is not the price so much, as
it is the "bulk".

Also, the order of the "books" is different in the
TaNaKh, than in your translations.

With "Chronicles" being the last book.

Given that it is spread over 14 volumes, with a different
order to the books, can you imagine the practice it will
take to efficiently be able to find what you are looking
for?

Also, as in the SET, what is the last page in English
books, is the first page of the SET. The pages are
turned from left to right, rather than from right to left.
Which, I actually like and prefer. In fact, I am so
used to it, that I accidently do so with English books
after spending time in Hebrew.

I am not trying to discourage you. Just to give you
some perspective upon the reality of it. Personally,
I think overall, you would be disappointed by it.

Again, I would recommend starting with such as
the chabad website, or the SET. If you find you
are comfortable, and want more, then move up to
the Soncino.

Heck, I have a copy of the SET that I would give
you if I could. I read it, I almost never refer to it.
It sits collecting dust. Most of the time I use it
anymore, is to consult the Hebrew text itself.

When open before you, the page on the right, is
the Hebrew text. The page on the left, is an English
translation. A "flavour".
n***@live.com
2014-03-31 18:22:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Up from the Abyss
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Up from the Abyss
Post by n***@live.com
I just read an article that uses The Soncino as their reference.
I have never heard of this book and did some research on it.
It is said to be the most accurate of translations.
Sam, or anyone, do you know of this book?
Last I knew, "Soncino" was a 14 volume set that is
more of a commentary along with said translation.
There is also, a "Soncino" translation of Talmud.
Which is also highly touted, but that is not the
"Bible".
Nancy, *all* translations claim accuracy, or that
their translation is one of the best. And there are
those, who claim that such and such translation
is the most accurate. Take a look at the
KJV onlyists, they tout and claim it is the most
accurate.
*All* translations, are "flavoured" by the inflected
beliefs of the translators. ***All*** of them.
I am not saying that "Soncino" is not accurate,
however, neither am I giving it a nod of approval.
It is a "flavour", just like any other "flavour".
Baskin Robbins had 31 flavours of ice cream
once upon a time. We have a multitude of
"flavours" of translations as well.
Just so that you know, I have read several Jewish
"flavours". They are "flavours", just like any other.
###
Dang, I thought if the Jewish people translated it into
English it would be more correct.
###
I had a feeling that was your hope. You might look into
the SET [Stone Edition TaNaKh], it also was highly
touted. It is a single volume, and it is a little lower in price.
You can also use the chabad website.
http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8165
The website, also has commentary by Rashi. You
just have to turn it on with the press of a button.
I would suggest looking into the above, before you
invest in a slightly higher priced, but also, incredibly
bulky 14 volume set. It is not the price so much, as
it is the "bulk".
Also, the order of the "books" is different in the
TaNaKh, than in your translations.
With "Chronicles" being the last book.
Given that it is spread over 14 volumes, with a different
order to the books, can you imagine the practice it will
take to efficiently be able to find what you are looking
for?
Also, as in the SET, what is the last page in English
books, is the first page of the SET. The pages are
turned from left to right, rather than from right to left.
Which, I actually like and prefer. In fact, I am so
used to it, that I accidently do so with English books
after spending time in Hebrew.
I am not trying to discourage you. Just to give you
some perspective upon the reality of it. Personally,
I think overall, you would be disappointed by it.
Again, I would recommend starting with such as
the chabad website, or the SET. If you find you
are comfortable, and want more, then move up to
the Soncino.
Heck, I have a copy of the SET that I would give
you if I could. I read it, I almost never refer to it.
It sits collecting dust. Most of the time I use it
anymore, is to consult the Hebrew text itself.
When open before you, the page on the right, is
the Hebrew text. The page on the left, is an English
translation. A "flavour".
###

Well, this is what has happened. 8-)

After seeing what Barns & Noble had on line I go over to their store. I thought I would buy just one book....maybe Job or Jeremiah. The lady, a nice lady, told me they didn't have those books in stock, but she could order them. Something about a second book store that has older and used books. I didn't know what she was talking about and told her I would wait.

Then I go to Books A Million and the girl there looked on line to see what they had. They had The Five Megilloth for $11.30. I think this will be one book and it will be shipped to my home for the total of $16.07. Not bad, ah?

Anyhow it should be here in a week. I will let you know what I think. 8-).

I have been a bit worried about understanding it, too. I will pray and ask God to help me! 8-) I'm excite about getting it. 8-)

I'm going to save your email and maybe I will go down those avenues too.

Thank you for your offer...but you never know....maybe one day your children will be interested.
Up from the Abyss
2014-04-03 00:03:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Up from the Abyss
Again, I would recommend starting with such as
the chabad website, or the SET. If you find you
are comfortable, and want more, then move up to
the Soncino.
Heck, I have a copy of the SET that I would give
you if I could. I read it, I almost never refer to it.
It sits collecting dust. Most of the time I use it
anymore, is to consult the Hebrew text itself.
###
Well, this is what has happened. 8-)
After seeing what Barns & Noble had on line I go
over to their store. I thought I would buy just one
book....maybe Job or Jeremiah. The lady, a nice lady,
told me they didn't have those books in stock, but she
could order them. Something about a second book
store that has older and used books. I didn't know
what she was talking about and told her I would wait.
Then I go to Books A Million and the girl there looked
on line to see what they had. They had The Five Megilloth
for $11.30. I think this will be one book and it will be
shipped to my home for the total of $16.07. Not bad, ah?
Anyhow it should be here in a week. I will let you know
what I think. 8-).
Since you and I have touched upon "Ecclesiastes" lately,
seems apropos. I shall look forward to hearing what you
think.
Post by n***@live.com
I have been a bit worried about understanding it, too. I
will pray and ask God to help me! 8-) I'm excite about
getting it. 8-)
I wouldn't worry about understanding it. They are well
written.
Post by n***@live.com
Thank you for your offer...but you never know....maybe
one day your children will be interested.
They are equipped. Years ago, my daughter was pissed
with me [Not really]. Because, her knowledge of the
"Scriptures" was greater than any of the boys she met,
and it caused a little friction. I guess boys just don't like
being shown up by a "girl". LOL
n***@live.com
2014-04-03 13:43:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Up from the Abyss
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Up from the Abyss
Again, I would recommend starting with such as
the chabad website, or the SET. If you find you
are comfortable, and want more, then move up to
the Soncino.
Heck, I have a copy of the SET that I would give
you if I could. I read it, I almost never refer to it.
It sits collecting dust. Most of the time I use it
anymore, is to consult the Hebrew text itself.
###
Well, this is what has happened. 8-)
After seeing what Barns & Noble had on line I go
over to their store. I thought I would buy just one
book....maybe Job or Jeremiah. The lady, a nice lady,
told me they didn't have those books in stock, but she
could order them. Something about a second book
store that has older and used books. I didn't know
what she was talking about and told her I would wait.
Then I go to Books A Million and the girl there looked
on line to see what they had. They had The Five Megilloth
for $11.30. I think this will be one book and it will be
shipped to my home for the total of $16.07. Not bad, ah?
Anyhow it should be here in a week. I will let you know
what I think. 8-).
Since you and I have touched upon "Ecclesiastes" lately,
seems apropos. I shall look forward to hearing what you
think.
###

Just a few minutes ago the UPS man delivered.8-) These are the five books in The Five Megilloth:

Song of Songs
Ruth
Lamentations
Ecclesiastes
Esther

Looks like 3 of the 5 Solomon wrote.

I don't care about the Commenrary from the ~most~ rev. dr. I want God to teach me. 8-)
###
Post by Up from the Abyss
Post by n***@live.com
I have been a bit worried about understanding it, too. I
will pray and ask God to help me! 8-) I'm excite about
getting it. 8-)
I wouldn't worry about understanding it. They are well
written.
Post by n***@live.com
Thank you for your offer...but you never know....maybe
one day your children will be interested.
They are equipped. Years ago, my daughter was pissed
with me [Not really]. Because, her knowledge of the
"Scriptures" was greater than any of the boys she met,
and it caused a little friction. I guess boys just don't like
being shown up by a "girl". LOL
###

8-)
Up from the Abyss
2014-04-06 11:10:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Up from the Abyss
Since you and I have touched upon "Ecclesiastes" lately,
seems apropos. I shall look forward to hearing what you
think.
###
Just a few minutes ago the UPS man delivered.8-)
Song of Songs
Ruth
Lamentations
Ecclesiastes
Esther
Looks like 3 of the 5 Solomon wrote.
I don't care about the Commenrary from the ~most~ rev.
dr. I want God to teach me. 8-)
###
I understand your desire. So I also know you don't
really need nor want any "commentary".

Since you and I have touched upon "Ecclesiates" lately,
I thought it apropos, and shall look forward to hearing
your thoughts regarding it.
n***@live.com
2014-04-06 16:57:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Up from the Abyss
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Up from the Abyss
Since you and I have touched upon "Ecclesiastes" lately,
seems apropos. I shall look forward to hearing what you
think.
###
Just a few minutes ago the UPS man delivered.8-)
Song of Songs
Ruth
Lamentations
Ecclesiastes
Esther
Looks like 3 of the 5 Solomon wrote.
I don't care about the Commenrary from the ~most~ rev.
dr. I want God to teach me. 8-)
###
I understand your desire. So I also know you don't
really need nor want any "commentary".
Since you and I have touched upon "Ecclesiates" lately,
I thought it apropos, and shall look forward to hearing
your thoughts regarding it.
###

I got to tell you....I think I have found what I'm really looking for. I'm looking for a translation that doesn't have a Christian spin on it.

The Jewish Publishers Society (JPS) I believe have such books. I know it will have the Jewish spin such as Abraham was Jewish. I was on a Jewish newsgroup long time ago and they said that Abraham was the first Jew. I told them Abraham was the great grandfather of the Jewish people. They didn't like that and ask me if I though I knew more than the Rabbis.8-)

....but I will read the one I have first.
n***@live.com
2014-04-06 17:24:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Up from the Abyss
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Up from the Abyss
Since you and I have touched upon "Ecclesiastes" lately,
seems apropos. I shall look forward to hearing what you
think.
###
Just a few minutes ago the UPS man delivered.8-)
Song of Songs
Ruth
Lamentations
Ecclesiastes
Esther
Looks like 3 of the 5 Solomon wrote.
I don't care about the Commenrary from the ~most~ rev.
dr. I want God to teach me. 8-)
###
I understand your desire. So I also know you don't
really need nor want any "commentary".
Since you and I have touched upon "Ecclesiates" lately,
I thought it apropos, and shall look forward to hearing
your thoughts regarding it.
###
I got to tell you....I think I have found what I'm really looking for. I'm looking for a translation that doesn't have a Christian spin on it.
The Jewish Publishers Society (JPS) I believe have such books. I know it will have the Jewish spin such as Abraham was Jewish. I was on a Jewish newsgroup long time ago and they said that Abraham was the first Jew. I told them Abraham was the great grandfather of the Jewish people. They didn't like that and ask me if I though I knew more than the Rabbis.8-)
....but I will read the one I have first.
###

Just so you didn't notice....I answered you in the same day...this time.
Up from the Abyss
2014-04-06 17:58:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@live.com
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Up from the Abyss
Since you and I have touched upon "Ecclesiates" lately,
I thought it apropos, and shall look forward to hearing
your thoughts regarding it.
###
I got to tell you....I think I have found what I'm really
looking for. I'm looking for a translation that doesn't
have a Christian spin on it.
The Jewish Publishers Society (JPS) I believe have
such books. I know it will have the Jewish spin such as
Abraham was Jewish. I was on a Jewish newsgroup
long time ago and they said that Abraham was the first
Jew. I told them Abraham was the great grandfather
of the Jewish people. They didn't like that and ask me
if I though I knew more than the Rabbis.8-)
If memory serves, e-Sword used to offer the JPS Bible
for their software, it was a free download. But that is
going back quite a few years now.

*If* memory serves, it really wasn't much different
than a KJV. But, it has been a long time now, and
I read enough "flavours", that I can't even remember
the exact wording of many of them.
Post by n***@live.com
Post by n***@live.com
....but I will read the one I have first.
Good idea.
Post by n***@live.com
###
Just so you didn't notice....I answered you in the same
day...this time.
Indubitably <chuckle>
n***@live.com
2014-04-06 20:38:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Up from the Abyss
Post by n***@live.com
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Up from the Abyss
Since you and I have touched upon "Ecclesiates" lately,
I thought it apropos, and shall look forward to hearing
your thoughts regarding it.
###
I got to tell you....I think I have found what I'm really
looking for. I'm looking for a translation that doesn't
have a Christian spin on it.
The Jewish Publishers Society (JPS) I believe have
such books. I know it will have the Jewish spin such as
Abraham was Jewish. I was on a Jewish newsgroup
long time ago and they said that Abraham was the first
Jew. I told them Abraham was the great grandfather
of the Jewish people. They didn't like that and ask me
if I though I knew more than the Rabbis.8-)
If memory serves, e-Sword used to offer the JPS Bible
for their software, it was a free download. But that is
going back quite a few years now.
*If* memory serves, it really wasn't much different
than a KJV. But, it has been a long time now, and
I read enough "flavours", that I can't even remember
the exact wording of many of them.
###

Well, dang, I just as well cut this idea lose and go with what I have.

I was thinking when the Gentiles took over the early Church they translated what the Jew had kept to conform to their ideology and what they wanted God to say.

I thought maybe the Jews had kept it more accurate. But I guess God can still teach me no matter what. 8-)
Post by Up from the Abyss
Post by n***@live.com
Post by n***@live.com
....but I will read the one I have first.
Good idea.
Post by n***@live.com
###
Just so you didn't notice....I answered you in the same
day...this time.
Indubitably <chuckle>
Up from the Abyss
2014-04-06 21:40:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Up from the Abyss
Post by n***@live.com
I got to tell you....I think I have found what I'm really
looking for. I'm looking for a translation that doesn't
have a Christian spin on it.
The Jewish Publishers Society (JPS) I believe have
such books. I know it will have the Jewish spin such as
Abraham was Jewish. I was on a Jewish newsgroup
long time ago and they said that Abraham was the first
Jew. I told them Abraham was the great grandfather
of the Jewish people. They didn't like that and ask me
if I though I knew more than the Rabbis.8-)
If memory serves, e-Sword used to offer the JPS Bible
for their software, it was a free download. But that is
going back quite a few years now.
*If* memory serves, it really wasn't much different
than a KJV. But, it has been a long time now, and
I read enough "flavours", that I can't even remember
the exact wording of many of them.
###
Well, dang, I just as well cut this idea lose and go with
what I have.
I was thinking when the Gentiles took over the early Church
they translated what the Jew had kept to conform to their
ideology and what they wanted God to say.
The JPS did have some differences, but they were not
overly significant according to memory.

And, the TaNaKh, is carried by some as far from
"Christianity" as it can be. However, there is only
so far one can go, lest it be overly obvious.

There is much, in the "nuance" of translation(s). Even
revised versions, the "nuance" is changed here and
there, in so that a verse, does not read with the same
nuance of understanding, even though the words are
nearly identical.

If you can download a free version of the JPS, or even
buy one relatively inexpensively, go ahead and do so.

But I wouldn't spend a lot of money, for if you did, I
think you would be disappointed.
Post by n***@live.com
I thought maybe the Jews had kept it more accurate.
Yet, even the Rabbi's and Scholars that I have spoken
with, admit that much is lost in translation, even if it is
an honest one. But even an "honest" one, is still "flavoured"
by the inflected beliefs of the translators.
Post by n***@live.com
But I guess God can still teach me no matter what. 8-)
Indeed He can.
n***@live.com
2014-04-06 23:18:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Up from the Abyss
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Up from the Abyss
Post by n***@live.com
I got to tell you....I think I have found what I'm really
looking for. I'm looking for a translation that doesn't
have a Christian spin on it.
The Jewish Publishers Society (JPS) I believe have
such books. I know it will have the Jewish spin such as
Abraham was Jewish. I was on a Jewish newsgroup
long time ago and they said that Abraham was the first
Jew. I told them Abraham was the great grandfather
of the Jewish people. They didn't like that and ask me
if I though I knew more than the Rabbis.8-)
If memory serves, e-Sword used to offer the JPS Bible
for their software, it was a free download. But that is
going back quite a few years now.
*If* memory serves, it really wasn't much different
than a KJV. But, it has been a long time now, and
I read enough "flavours", that I can't even remember
the exact wording of many of them.
###
Well, dang, I just as well cut this idea lose and go with
what I have.
I was thinking when the Gentiles took over the early Church
they translated what the Jew had kept to conform to their
ideology and what they wanted God to say.
The JPS did have some differences, but they were not
overly significant according to memory.
And, the TaNaKh, is carried by some as far from
"Christianity" as it can be. However, there is only
so far one can go, lest it be overly obvious.
There is much, in the "nuance" of translation(s). Even
revised versions, the "nuance" is changed here and
there, in so that a verse, does not read with the same
nuance of understanding, even though the words are
nearly identical.
If you can download a free version of the JPS, or even
buy one relatively inexpensively, go ahead and do so.
But I wouldn't spend a lot of money, for if you did, I
think you would be disappointed.
Post by n***@live.com
I thought maybe the Jews had kept it more accurate.
Yet, even the Rabbi's and Scholars that I have spoken
with, admit that much is lost in translation, even if it is
an honest one. But even an "honest" one, is still "flavoured"
by the inflected beliefs of the translators.
###
Thank you, Richard, for explaining this to me. 8-)

I've got a week before Passover and Unleavened Bread. I know I will be busy and may not get to my new book.....but when I do maybe we will talk?

Passover.... I am honored to partake of....I keep it alone, not really. 8-)
Post by Up from the Abyss
Post by n***@live.com
But I guess God can still teach me no matter what. 8-)
Indeed He can.
Up from the Abyss
2014-04-07 00:10:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Up from the Abyss
If you can download a free version of the JPS, or even
buy one relatively inexpensively, go ahead and do so.
But I wouldn't spend a lot of money, for if you did, I
think you would be disappointed.
###
Thank you, Richard, for explaining this to me. 8-)
`Al lo' davar [Don't mention it].
Post by n***@live.com
I've got a week before Passover and Unleavened Bread.
I know I will be busy and may not get to my new
book.....but when I do maybe we will talk?
Passover.... I am honored to partake of....I keep it alone,
not really. 8-)
May you have a truly blessed feast Nancy.

When you are ready, we can talk.
n***@live.com
2014-04-15 23:43:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Up from the Abyss
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Up from the Abyss
If you can download a free version of the JPS, or even
buy one relatively inexpensively, go ahead and do so.
But I wouldn't spend a lot of money, for if you did, I
think you would be disappointed.
###
Thank you, Richard, for explaining this to me. 8-)
`Al lo' davar [Don't mention it].
Post by n***@live.com
I've got a week before Passover and Unleavened Bread.
I know I will be busy and may not get to my new
book.....but when I do maybe we will talk?
Passover.... I am honored to partake of....I keep it alone,
not really. 8-)
May you have a truly blessed feast Nancy.
When you are ready, we can talk.
###

Well, I gotta tell you The Soncino just is not what I'm looking for. 8-( I don't care about their commentaries about what they think each word means.....makes me a bad student, right.

I want a Book that a Jewish person has translated from Hebrew to English....keeping it as close to the Hebrew meaning as they can.
I think gentile Christians have put their own spin on what was written, so I would like to read the Jewish spin. 8-)

I have found the ~Complete Jewish Bible~ by David H Stern....maybe I'll try it.
Up from the Abyss
2014-04-20 19:37:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Up from the Abyss
May you have a truly blessed feast Nancy.
When you are ready, we can talk.
###
Well, I gotta tell you The Soncino just is not what I'm looking
for. 8-(
I didn't think it would be. Thus, why I discouraged you
from spending any real amount of money upon it.
Post by n***@live.com
I don't care about their commentaries about what they think
each word means.....makes me a bad student, right.
Commentaries are opinions. Some opinions are better
than others. Contrast can be good though.
Post by n***@live.com
I want a Book that a Jewish person has translated from
Hebrew to English....keeping it as close to the Hebrew
meaning as they can.
I think gentile Christians have put their own spin on what
was written, so I would like to read the Jewish spin. 8-)
<chuckle> They are *all* flavours, so rightly do you call
it a "spin".
Post by n***@live.com
I have found the ~Complete Jewish Bible~ by David H
Stern....maybe I'll try it.
The CJB is available online and can be read at
www.biblegateway.com

[Courtesy of Terry Cross that I know that]


That would save you from purchasing it until after you
have had a chance to sample the "flavour" and see
what you think. I have not read enough of it to offer
an opinion either way. From memory, there were some
good points.

But again, since it is available, try it before you buy it.

Unless of course, like last time, you go ahead and order
it before I have a chance to reply <chuckle>.
n***@live.com
2014-04-20 22:33:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Up from the Abyss
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Up from the Abyss
May you have a truly blessed feast Nancy.
When you are ready, we can talk.
###
Well, I gotta tell you The Soncino just is not what I'm looking
for. 8-(
I didn't think it would be. Thus, why I discouraged you
from spending any real amount of money upon it.
Post by n***@live.com
I don't care about their commentaries about what they think
each word means.....makes me a bad student, right.
Commentaries are opinions. Some opinions are better
than others. Contrast can be good though.
Post by n***@live.com
I want a Book that a Jewish person has translated from
Hebrew to English....keeping it as close to the Hebrew
meaning as they can.
I think gentile Christians have put their own spin on what
was written, so I would like to read the Jewish spin. 8-)
<chuckle> They are *all* flavours, so rightly do you call
it a "spin".
Post by n***@live.com
I have found the ~Complete Jewish Bible~ by David H
Stern....maybe I'll try it.
The CJB is available online and can be read at
www.biblegateway.com
[Courtesy of Terry Cross that I know that]
That would save you from purchasing it until after you
have had a chance to sample the "flavour" and see
what you think. I have not read enough of it to offer
an opinion either way. From memory, there were some
good points.
But again, since it is available, try it before you buy it.
Unless of course, like last time, you go ahead and order
it before I have a chance to reply <chuckle>.
###

I already bought it. 8-) Color coding as I read. 8-)

I want to talk from my heart...

At the age of 38 I was an atheist. My life had been kinda like a rats in a maze, but I was hanging on. Then something personal happened to me and I saw it as so bad that like a light being switched on I knew there wasn't a God. You see, I blamed God for the evil men do.

During this time I never talked about God......not for the good nor for the bad. To tell you the truth I refused to think about Him......why do you talk about Him?
Up from the Abyss
2014-04-20 23:28:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Up from the Abyss
Post by n***@live.com
I have found the ~Complete Jewish Bible~ by David H
Stern....maybe I'll try it.
<snip>
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Up from the Abyss
Unless of course, like last time, you go ahead and order
it before I have a chance to reply <chuckle>.
###
I already bought it. 8-) Color coding as I read. 8-)
I hope it serves you well.
Post by n***@live.com
I want to talk from my heart...
At the age of 38 I was an atheist. My life had been kinda
like a rats in a maze, but I was hanging on. Then something
personal happened to me and I saw it as so bad that like a
light being switched on I knew there wasn't a God. You see,
I blamed God for the evil men do.
I understand. However, I do not blame "God" for such.

Mankind is mankind.

There are those who are "good", whether they believe in
"God" or not. And, there are those who are "evil",
whether they believe in "God" or not.
Post by n***@live.com
During this time I never talked about God......not for the
good nor for the bad. To tell you the truth I refused to
think about Him......why do you talk about Him?
Good question.

While I am perhaps knowledgeable in some areas
of life. Most, is not the kind of stuff that anyone
wants to discuss. Such as structural loads and details.

And, I suck at making small talk.

However, perhaps, because I spent so many
years of the prime of my life learning His "Word",
that there is little else I am fit to really discuss.

Remember that thing that I put together for you
regarding Daniel? It didn't go to waste. I ended
up giving it to one who was interested in such.

Perhaps, atheist or not, something has stirred me
and caused me to come here.

I'll have to consider your question and get back
to you.

Linda Lee
2014-04-01 06:22:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Up from the Abyss
Post by n***@live.com
I just read an article that uses The Soncino as their reference.
I have never heard of this book and did some research on it.
It is said to be the most accurate of translations.
Sam, or anyone, do you know of this book?
Last I knew, "Soncino" was a 14 volume set that is
more of a commentary along with said translation.
There is also, a "Soncino" translation of Talmud.
Which is also highly touted, but that is not the
"Bible".
Nancy, *all* translations claim accuracy, or that
their translation is one of the best. And there are
those, who claim that such and such translation
is the most accurate. Take a look at the
KJV onlyists, they tout and claim it is the most
accurate.
*All* translations, are "flavoured" by the inflected
beliefs of the translators. ***All*** of them.
I am not saying that "Soncino" is not accurate,
however, neither am I giving it a nod of approval.
It is a "flavour", just like any other "flavour".
Baskin Robbins had 31 flavours of ice cream
once upon a time. We have a multitude of
"flavours" of translations as well.
Just so that you know, I have read several Jewish
"flavours". They are "flavours", just like any other.
Post by n***@live.com
Anyhow, the article says the names such as "bright
and moning star", "light bringer", "day star", etc. is
a rank or function that the Being does.
I didn't read the article, but I do know that to be
correct.
Thus, why said one, heylel, is ben_shakhar, son of
the dawn. Or, son of the first light. Thus, secondary
or lower in rank / position, to "dawn" or the "first light".
As for the whole "Jesus" and "Satan" are brothers,
that is mere bullshit in my opinion. Colossians
[cf Col 1:15-18] clearly states that all things, both in
heaven and on earth, were created for and through
him [Jesus], for he is *before* all things.
That includes the "satan" character. Thus, if you
believe that Yeshayahu [Isaiah] 14 is refering to
the "satan" character, that same character is clearly
described as being ben_shakhar, son of the dawn,
or son of the first light. That "first light", the "dawn"
of creation, was the light created in
Bere'shit [Gen] 1:3. Before the heaven and earth.
Before any of the host of the heavens, whether
angel, archangel, cherubim or seraphim.
Just as the "wisdom" of Mishle [Proverbs] 8, was
brought forth, before the heaven and earth.
<snip>
Very good post.
Linda Lee
2014-04-01 06:29:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Up from the Abyss
Post by n***@live.com
I just read an article that uses The Soncino as their reference.
I have never heard of this book and did some research on it.
It is said to be the most accurate of translations.
Sam, or anyone, do you know of this book?
Last I knew, "Soncino" was a 14 volume set that is
more of a commentary along with said translation.
There is also, a "Soncino" translation of Talmud.
Which is also highly touted, but that is not the
"Bible".
Nancy, *all* translations claim accuracy, or that
their translation is one of the best. And there are
those, who claim that such and such translation
is the most accurate. Take a look at the
KJV onlyists, they tout and claim it is the most
accurate.
*All* translations, are "flavoured" by the inflected
beliefs of the translators. ***All*** of them.
I am not saying that "Soncino" is not accurate,
however, neither am I giving it a nod of approval.
It is a "flavour", just like any other "flavour".
Baskin Robbins had 31 flavours of ice cream
once upon a time. We have a multitude of
"flavours" of translations as well.
Just so that you know, I have read several Jewish
"flavours". They are "flavours", just like any other.
Looks like Nancy may have ignored what I thought to be the best part of this post; the text following this point.
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Up from the Abyss
Post by n***@live.com
Anyhow, the article says the names such as "bright
and moning star", "light bringer", "day star", etc. is
a rank or function that the Being does.
I didn't read the article, but I do know that to be
correct.
Thus, why said one, heylel, is ben_shakhar, son of
the dawn. Or, son of the first light. Thus, secondary
or lower in rank / position, to "dawn" or the "first light".
As for the whole "Jesus" and "Satan" are brothers,
that is mere bullshit in my opinion. Colossians
[cf Col 1:15-18] clearly states that all things, both in
heaven and on earth, were created for and through
him [Jesus], for he is *before* all things.
That includes the "satan" character. Thus, if you
believe that Yeshayahu [Isaiah] 14 is refering to
the "satan" character, that same character is clearly
described as being ben_shakhar, son of the dawn,
or son of the first light. That "first light", the "dawn"
of creation, was the light created in
Bere'shit [Gen] 1:3. Before the heaven and earth.
Before any of the host of the heavens, whether
angel, archangel, cherubim or seraphim.
Just as the "wisdom" of Mishle [Proverbs] 8, was
brought forth, before the heaven and earth.
<snip>
As I recall, we've discussed the first Light of Gen. 1:3 and the Wisdom of Proverbs 8 in the distant past.
Post by Linda Lee
Very good post.
Up from the Abyss
2014-04-03 00:04:05 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by Linda Lee
Looks like Nancy may have ignored what I thought to
be the best part of this post; the text following this point.
Nancy likes to take her time to consider things that an
"atheist" says. Pays to be careful.

Besides, she is excited right now.
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Up from the Abyss
Thus, why said one, heylel, is ben_shakhar, son of
the dawn. Or, son of the first light. Thus, secondary
or lower in rank / position, to "dawn" or the "first light".
As for the whole "Jesus" and "Satan" are brothers,
that is mere bullshit in my opinion. Colossians
[cf Col 1:15-18] clearly states that all things, both in
heaven and on earth, were created for and through
him [Jesus], for he is *before* all things.
That includes the "satan" character. Thus, if you
believe that Yeshayahu [Isaiah] 14 is refering to
the "satan" character, that same character is clearly
described as being ben_shakhar, son of the dawn,
or son of the first light. That "first light", the "dawn"
of creation, was the light created in
Bere'shit [Gen] 1:3. Before the heaven and earth.
Before any of the host of the heavens, whether
angel, archangel, cherubim or seraphim.
Just as the "wisdom" of Mishle [Proverbs] 8, was
brought forth, before the heaven and earth.
As I recall, we've discussed the first Light of Gen. 1:3
and the Wisdom of Proverbs 8 in the distant past.
Indubitably. And, we *nearly* agree upon it. Nearly.
<chuckle>
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Linda Lee
Very good post.
Thanks Linda.
n***@live.com
2014-04-03 13:46:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@live.com
<snip>
Post by Linda Lee
Looks like Nancy may have ignored what I thought to
be the best part of this post; the text following this point.
Nancy likes to take her time to consider things that an
"atheist" says. Pays to be careful.
Besides, she is excited right now.
###

It's not about listening to you.....it's about me learning to walk with God.

###
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Up from the Abyss
Thus, why said one, heylel, is ben_shakhar, son of
the dawn. Or, son of the first light. Thus, secondary
or lower in rank / position, to "dawn" or the "first light".
As for the whole "Jesus" and "Satan" are brothers,
that is mere bullshit in my opinion. Colossians
[cf Col 1:15-18] clearly states that all things, both in
heaven and on earth, were created for and through
him [Jesus], for he is *before* all things.
That includes the "satan" character. Thus, if you
believe that Yeshayahu [Isaiah] 14 is refering to
the "satan" character, that same character is clearly
described as being ben_shakhar, son of the dawn,
or son of the first light. That "first light", the "dawn"
of creation, was the light created in
Bere'shit [Gen] 1:3. Before the heaven and earth.
Before any of the host of the heavens, whether
angel, archangel, cherubim or seraphim.
Just as the "wisdom" of Mishle [Proverbs] 8, was
brought forth, before the heaven and earth.
As I recall, we've discussed the first Light of Gen. 1:3
and the Wisdom of Proverbs 8 in the distant past.
Indubitably. And, we *nearly* agree upon it. Nearly.
<chuckle>
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Linda Lee
Very good post.
Thanks Linda.
Linda Lee
2014-04-04 07:00:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@live.com
Post by n***@live.com
<snip>
Post by Linda Lee
Looks like Nancy may have ignored what I thought to
be the best part of this post; the text following this point.
Nancy likes to take her time to consider things that an
"atheist" says. Pays to be careful.
Besides, she is excited right now.
###
It's not about listening to you.....it's about me learning to walk with God.
###
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Up from the Abyss
Thus, why said one, heylel, is ben_shakhar, son of
the dawn. Or, son of the first light. Thus, secondary
or lower in rank / position, to "dawn" or the "first light".
As for the whole "Jesus" and "Satan" are brothers,
that is mere bullshit in my opinion. Colossians
[cf Col 1:15-18] clearly states that all things, both in
heaven and on earth, were created for and through
him [Jesus], for he is *before* all things.
Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Post by n***@live.com
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Up from the Abyss
That includes the "satan" character. Thus, if you
believe that Yeshayahu [Isaiah] 14 is refering to
the "satan" character, that same character is clearly
described as being ben_shakhar, son of the dawn,
or son of the first light. That "first light", the "dawn"
of creation, was the light created in
Bere'shit [Gen] 1:3. Before the heaven and earth.
Before any of the host of the heavens, whether
angel, archangel, cherubim or seraphim.
Since you say you think he is so great at interpreting the Scriptures, why do you ignore his opinion on this, especially when he's given you both a logical explanation, and one that is backed up by the Scriptures?


Christ said in John 8:44 that Satan/the Devil was a murderer from the beginning, a liar without any truth in him, and the father of lies. HOW in the world could Satan ever have been in any way equal to Christ?

John 8:44, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."


To try to tie together the Son of God/Messiah and Satan in this way, to say they are both special sons of God, is risking calling evil good and calling the darkness light.

God said in Isa. 5:20, "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"

Acts 26:18, "To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me."


Col. 1:13 "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son".
Post by n***@live.com
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Up from the Abyss
Just as the "wisdom" of Mishle [Proverbs] 8, was
brought forth, before the heaven and earth.
As I recall, we've discussed the first Light of Gen. 1:3
and the Wisdom of Proverbs 8 in the distant past.
Indubitably. And, we *nearly* agree upon it. Nearly.
<chuckle>
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Linda Lee
Very good post.
Thanks Linda.
Linda Lee
2014-04-04 07:04:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linda Lee
Post by n***@live.com
Post by n***@live.com
<snip>
Post by Linda Lee
Looks like Nancy may have ignored what I thought to
be the best part of this post; the text following this point.
Nancy likes to take her time to consider things that an
"atheist" says. Pays to be careful.
Besides, she is excited right now.
###
It's not about listening to you.....it's about me learning to walk with God.
###
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Up from the Abyss
Thus, why said one, heylel, is ben_shakhar, son of
the dawn. Or, son of the first light. Thus, secondary
or lower in rank / position, to "dawn" or the "first light".
As for the whole "Jesus" and "Satan" are brothers,
that is mere bullshit in my opinion. Colossians
[cf Col 1:15-18] clearly states that all things, both in
heaven and on earth, were created for and through
him [Jesus], for he is *before* all things.
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Missed verse 18.

Col. 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Preeminence:
Gk. 4409
prōteuō
From G4413[foremost] ; to be first (in rank or influence).
Post by Linda Lee
Post by n***@live.com
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Up from the Abyss
That includes the "satan" character. Thus, if you
believe that Yeshayahu [Isaiah] 14 is refering to
the "satan" character, that same character is clearly
described as being ben_shakhar, son of the dawn,
or son of the first light. That "first light", the "dawn"
of creation, was the light created in
Bere'shit [Gen] 1:3. Before the heaven and earth.
Before any of the host of the heavens, whether
angel, archangel, cherubim or seraphim.
Since you say you think he is so great at interpreting the Scriptures, why do you ignore his opinion on this, especially when he's given you both a logical explanation, and one that is backed up by the Scriptures?
Christ said in John 8:44 that Satan/the Devil was a murderer from the beginning, a liar without any truth in him, and the father of lies. HOW in the world could Satan ever have been in any way equal to Christ?
John 8:44, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."
To try to tie together the Son of God/Messiah and Satan in this way, to say they are both special sons of God, is risking calling evil good and calling the darkness light.
God said in Isa. 5:20, "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"
Acts 26:18, "To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me."
Col. 1:13 "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son".
Post by n***@live.com
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Up from the Abyss
Just as the "wisdom" of Mishle [Proverbs] 8, was
brought forth, before the heaven and earth.
As I recall, we've discussed the first Light of Gen. 1:3
and the Wisdom of Proverbs 8 in the distant past.
Indubitably. And, we *nearly* agree upon it. Nearly.
<chuckle>
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Linda Lee
Very good post.
Thanks Linda.
Linda Lee
2014-04-04 06:38:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@live.com
<snip>
Post by Linda Lee
Looks like Nancy may have ignored what I thought to
be the best part of this post; the text following this point.
Nancy likes to take her time to consider things that an
"atheist" says. Pays to be careful.
Besides, she is excited right now.
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Up from the Abyss
Thus, why said one, heylel, is ben_shakhar, son of
the dawn. Or, son of the first light. Thus, secondary
or lower in rank / position, to "dawn" or the "first light".
As for the whole "Jesus" and "Satan" are brothers,
that is mere bullshit in my opinion. Colossians
[cf Col 1:15-18] clearly states that all things, both in
heaven and on earth, were created for and through
him [Jesus], for he is *before* all things.
That includes the "satan" character. Thus, if you
believe that Yeshayahu [Isaiah] 14 is refering to
the "satan" character, that same character is clearly
described as being ben_shakhar, son of the dawn,
or son of the first light. That "first light", the "dawn"
of creation, was the light created in
Bere'shit [Gen] 1:3. Before the heaven and earth.
Before any of the host of the heavens, whether
angel, archangel, cherubim or seraphim.
Just as the "wisdom" of Mishle [Proverbs] 8, was
brought forth, before the heaven and earth.
As I recall, we've discussed the first Light of Gen. 1:3
and the Wisdom of Proverbs 8 in the distant past.
Indubitably. And, we *nearly* agree upon it. Nearly.
<chuckle>
Of course that is one reason I thought it was a good post. ;-)
Post by n***@live.com
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Linda Lee
Very good post.
Thanks Linda.
Up from the Abyss
2014-04-06 11:28:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linda Lee
Post by Up from the Abyss
Post by Linda Lee
As I recall, we've discussed the first Light of Gen. 1:3
and the Wisdom of Proverbs 8 in the distant past.
Indubitably. And, we *nearly* agree upon it. Nearly.
<chuckle>
Of course that is one reason I thought it was a good post. ;-)
<hearty chuckle> Of course!
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