Discussion:
WHY DID CHRIST SAY BELIEVERS WOULD BE HATED, AND WHY ARE PEOPLE OFFENDED BY THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST?
(too old to reply)
Linda Lee
2012-01-20 20:25:49 UTC
Permalink
WHY DID CHRIST SAY BELIEVERS WOULD BE HATED, AND WHY ARE PEOPLE
OFFENDED BY THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST?

Christ said:
Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but
he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
...
Mat 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I
confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also
deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not
to send peace, but a sword.
Mat 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father,
and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against
her mother in law.
Mat 10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
Mat 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy
of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy
of me.
Mat 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me,
is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth
his life for my sake shall find it.

Christ said some would be "offended" by him, and that those who did
not find him offensive would be blessed:

In Luke 7:23 the Messiah said, "And blessed is he, whosoever shall not
be offended in me."

Obviously, some who would attempt to be believers would be offended in
him if they were hated because of belief in him. But what is it that
Christ was saying would make him offensive, so that others would hate
those who did believe in him, since he went to the Jews, and was a Jew
himself who taught repentance, righteousness, and the way to God?


1. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ maintains that belief
in Yahashua`/Jesus as the Son of God, the Lamb of God, and the Christ/
Messiah is a necessary element required to obtain salvation, and that
those who do not believe in him are condemned. This offends those who
don't believe in Christ in that way, or at all.

2. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ maintains that
Yahashua`/Jesus taught that the Son of God was YHWH/God himself acting
as the Saviour of the world, the only Saviour. This offends those who
believe in YHWH as the only true God, but who don't believe the Christ
to have been YHWH incarnate.

3. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ is that only the sins
of those who believe in Christ in the way described above will be
forgiven. This offends some who find it unjust and offensive as the
sins of others are not forgiven.

4. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ is that believers are
not under the condemnation accorded to sinners under the law of Moses,
but that believers are to love God, love their neighbor, and do good
works of charity and compassion. This offends some who think believers
should remain under the law of Moses if the Gentiles were indeed
joined to the sheep of Israel and have become one fold.


I don't know if there is anything else offensive to others about the
Gospel of Christ, but likely some will be offended I said this was the
"orthodox" opinion. I'd like to know what other things about the
Gospel are offensive besides 1-4 above.
Sam Taylor
2012-01-20 20:36:57 UTC
Permalink
dear linda,
I doubt it was from the "I've been persucuted fir
Rightiousness Sake Syndrome, you have".
But did he say, gripe, harp, complain, and whine about it
like a Little girl, like you do.
NO he said REJOICE, and BE GLAD, about it
So what is your complaining about is You don't actualy believe what is
written in Scripture.
regards
Sam
Post by Linda Lee
WHY DID CHRIST SAY BELIEVERS WOULD BE HATED, AND WHY ARE PEOPLE
OFFENDED BY THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST?
Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but
he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
...
Mat 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I
confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also
deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not
to send peace, but a sword.
Mat 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father,
and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against
her mother in law.
Mat 10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
Mat 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy
of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy
of me.
Mat 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me,
is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth
his life for my sake shall find it.
Christ said some would be "offended" by him, and that those who did
In Luke 7:23 the Messiah said, "And blessed is he, whosoever shall not
be offended in me."
Obviously, some who would attempt to be believers would be offended in
him if they were hated because of belief in him. But what is it that
Christ was saying would make him offensive, so that others would hate
those who did believe in him, since he went to the Jews, and was a Jew
himself who taught repentance, righteousness, and the way to God?
1. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ maintains that belief
in Yahashua`/Jesus as the Son of God, the Lamb of God, and the Christ/
Messiah is a necessary element required to obtain salvation, and that
those who do not believe in him are condemned. This offends those who
don't believe in Christ in that way, or at all.
2. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ maintains that
Yahashua`/Jesus taught that the Son of God was YHWH/God himself acting
as the Saviour of the world, the only Saviour. This offends those who
believe in YHWH as the only true God, but who don't believe the Christ
to have been YHWH incarnate.
3. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ is that only the sins
of those who believe in Christ in the way described above will be
forgiven. This offends some who find it unjust and offensive as the
sins of others are not forgiven.
4. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ is that believers are
not under the condemnation accorded to sinners under the law of Moses,
but that believers are to love God, love their neighbor, and do good
works of charity and compassion. This offends some who think believers
should remain under the law of Moses if the Gentiles were indeed
joined to the sheep of Israel and have become one fold.
I don't know if there is anything else offensive to others about the
Gospel of Christ, but likely some will be offended I said this was the
"orthodox" opinion. I'd like to know what other things about the
Gospel are offensive besides 1-4 above.
unknown
2012-01-20 23:42:44 UTC
Permalink
The problem is that every counterfeit christian group and cult comingdown
the pike ask the same about themselves?

The jw and morman and others ask it and then claim it as their mark of
being correct.
Linda Lee
2012-01-20 23:59:20 UTC
Permalink
WHY DID CHRIST SAY BELIEVERS WOULD BE HATED, AND WHY ARE PEOPLE
OFFENDED BY THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST?

Christ said:
Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but
he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
...
Mat 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I
confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also
deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not
to send peace, but a sword.
Mat 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father,
and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against
her mother in law.
Mat 10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
Mat 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy
of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy
of me.
Mat 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me,
is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth
his life for my sake shall find it.

Christ said some would be "offended" by him, and that those who did
not find him offensive would be blessed:

In Luke 7:23 the Messiah said, "And blessed is he, whosoever shall not
be offended in me."

Obviously, some who would attempt to be believers would be offended in
him if they were hated because of belief in him. But what is it that
Christ was saying would make him offensive, so that others would hate
those who did believe in him, since he went to the Jews, and was a Jew
himself who taught repentance, righteousness, and the way to God?

1. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ maintains that belief
in Yahashua`/Jesus as the Son of God, the Lamb of God, and the Christ/
Messiah is a necessary element required to obtain salvation, and that
those who do not believe in him are condemned. This offends those who
don't believe in Christ in that way, or at all.

2. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ maintains that
Yahashua`/Jesus taught that the Son of God was YHWH/God himself acting
as the Saviour of the world, the only Saviour. This offends those who
believe in YHWH as the only true God, but who don't believe the Christ
to have been YHWH incarnate.

3. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ is that only the sins
of those who believe in Christ in the way described above will be
forgiven. This offends some who find it unjust and offensive as the
sins of others are not forgiven.

4. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ is that believers are
not under the condemnation accorded to sinners under the law of Moses,
but that believers are to love God, love their neighbor, and do good
works of charity and compassion. This offends some who think believers
should remain under the law of Moses if the Gentiles were indeed
joined to the sheep of Israel and have become one fold.

I don't know if there is anything else offensive to others about the
Gospel of Christ, but likely some will be offended I said this was the
"orthodox" opinion. I'd like to know what other things about the
Gospel are offensive besides 1-4 above.
Anathema
2012-01-21 00:38:35 UTC
Permalink
WHY DID CHRIST...
I saw it the first two times.
Nancy
2012-01-21 01:40:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linda Lee
WHY DID CHRIST SAY BELIEVERS WOULD BE HATED, AND WHY ARE PEOPLE
OFFENDED BY THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST?
Mat 10:22  And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but
he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
...
Mat 10:32  Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I
confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:33  But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also
deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:34  Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not
to send peace, but a sword.
Mat 10:35  For I am come to set a man at variance against his father,
and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against
her mother in law.
Mat 10:36  And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
Mat 10:37  He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy
of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy
of me.
Mat 10:38  And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me,
is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:39  He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth
his life for my sake shall find it.
Christ said some would be "offended" by him, and that those who did
In Luke 7:23 the Messiah said, "And blessed is he, whosoever shall not
be offended in me."
Obviously, some who would attempt to be believers would be offended in
him if they were hated because of belief in him. But what is it that
Christ was saying would make him offensive, so that others would hate
those who did believe in him, since he went to the Jews, and was a Jew
himself who taught repentance, righteousness, and the way to God?
1. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ maintains that belief
in Yahashua`/Jesus as the Son of God, the Lamb of God, and the Christ/
Messiah is a necessary element required to obtain salvation, and that
those who do not believe in him are condemned. This offends those who
don't believe in Christ in that way, or at all.
~~~
Nancy

Linda, what do you believe salvation is?
Post by Linda Lee
2. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ maintains that
Yahashua`/Jesus taught that the Son of God was YHWH/God himself acting
as the Saviour of the world, the only Saviour. This offends those who
believe in YHWH as the only true God, but who don't believe the Christ
to have been YHWH incarnate.
3. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ is that only the sins
of those who believe in Christ in the way described above will be
forgiven. This offends some who find it unjust and offensive as the
sins of others are not forgiven.
4. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ is that believers are
not under the condemnation accorded to sinners under the law of Moses,
but that believers are to love God, love their neighbor, and do good
works of charity and compassion. This offends some who think believers
should remain under the law of Moses if the Gentiles were indeed
joined to the sheep of Israel and have become one fold.
I don't know if there is anything else offensive to others about the
Gospel of Christ, but likely some will be offended I said this was the
"orthodox" opinion. I'd like to know what other things about the
Gospel are offensive besides 1-4 above.
Linda Lee
2012-01-21 13:10:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nancy
Post by Linda Lee
WHY DID CHRIST SAY BELIEVERS WOULD BE HATED, AND WHY ARE PEOPLE
OFFENDED BY THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST?
Mat 10:22  And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but
he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
...
Mat 10:32  Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I
confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:33  But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also
deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:34  Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not
to send peace, but a sword.
Mat 10:35  For I am come to set a man at variance against his father,
and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against
her mother in law.
Mat 10:36  And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
Mat 10:37  He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy
of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy
of me.
Mat 10:38  And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me,
is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:39  He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth
his life for my sake shall find it.
Christ said some would be "offended" by him, and that those who did
In Luke 7:23 the Messiah said, "And blessed is he, whosoever shall not
be offended in me."
Obviously, some who would attempt to be believers would be offended in
him if they were hated because of belief in him. But what is it that
Christ was saying would make him offensive, so that others would hate
those who did believe in him, since he went to the Jews, and was a Jew
himself who taught repentance, righteousness, and the way to God?
1. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ maintains that belief
in Yahashua`/Jesus as the Son of God, the Lamb of God, and the Christ/
Messiah is a necessary element required to obtain salvation, and that
those who do not believe in him are condemned. This offends those who
don't believe in Christ in that way, or at all.
~~~
Nancy
Linda, what do you believe salvation is?
I believe salvation is to escape damnation through repentance and
forgiveness of sins (including the original sin of rejecting God to
follow 'the serpent'), victory over death, and the inheritance of
eternal life in Heaven, returned home to God, where we will be "equal
unto the angels" as children of God.

I cannot really imagine it though; the Scriptures do not explain what
spirit is or what God's realm in Heaven is really like. I doubt it
could be described in concepts people could understand. We have no
real concept of bliss or awe in this world and having never
experienced them, we cannot comprehend them.

Salvation:
Heb. 3444
ישׁוּעה
yeshû‛âh
yesh-oo'-aw
Feminine passive participle of H3467; something saved, that is,
(abstractly) deliverance; hence aid, victory, prosperity".

Deliver - Heb. 6403 - "to slip out, that is, escape; causatively to
deliver".

Now, would you like to answer my question posed in this thread also
about what people find offensive about the Gospel of Christ? That is,
if it applies to you. I don't really know what you believe, or if
you've even developed any firm beliefs yet. I've seen you say you
recently started studying and that you're excited about it. That's a
good sign. I would appreciate your input on what you find unacceptable
about the traditional belief concerning the Gospel of Christ.

At one time, before I had read the Scriptures, I thought it would be
just and right that God eventually saved everyone, and believed that
for a time, but looking into the Gospel, I saw some of Christ's words
indicated otherwise (such as Matt. 7:13-14 and Matt. 25:41). So I had
to decide which was right and truly just, my idea or the words of
Christ.
Post by Nancy
Post by Linda Lee
2. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ maintains that
Yahashua`/Jesus taught that the Son of God was YHWH/God himself acting
as the Saviour of the world, the only Saviour. This offends those who
believe in YHWH as the only true God, but who don't believe the Christ
to have been YHWH incarnate.
3. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ is that only the sins
of those who believe in Christ in the way described above will be
forgiven. This offends some who find it unjust and offensive as the
sins of others are not forgiven.
4. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ is that believers are
not under the condemnation accorded to sinners under the law of Moses,
but that believers are to love God, love their neighbor, and do good
works of charity and compassion. This offends some who think believers
should remain under the law of Moses if the Gentiles were indeed
joined to the sheep of Israel and have become one fold.
I don't know if there is anything else offensive to others about the
Gospel of Christ, but likely some will be offended I said this was the
"orthodox" opinion. I'd like to know what other things about the
Gospel are offensive besides 1-4 above.
Order Earthly
2012-01-21 03:53:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linda Lee
But what is it that
Christ was saying would make him offensive
This is the verdict: Light has come into the
world, but men loved darkness instead of
light because their deeds were evil. Everyone
who does evil hates the light, and will not
come into the light for fear that his deeds
will be exposed. But whoever lives by the
truth comes into the light, so that it may be
seen plainly that what he has done has been
done through God."
(John 3:19-21 NIV)
--
If anyone speaks, he should do it as one
speaking the very words of God. If anyone
serves, he should do it with the strength God
provides, so that in all things God may be
praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the
glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen.
(1Pe 4:11)
Anathema
2012-01-21 03:58:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Order Earthly
--
If anyone speaks, he should do it as one
speaking the very words of God. If anyone
serves, he should do it with the strength God
provides, so that in all things God may be
praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the
glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen.
(1Pe 4:11)
Amen and Amen.
Linda Lee
2012-01-21 12:20:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Order Earthly
Post by Linda Lee
But what is it that
Christ was saying would make him offensive
This is the verdict: Light has come into the
world, but men loved darkness instead of
light because their deeds were evil. Everyone
who does evil hates the light, and will not
come into the light for fear that his deeds
will be exposed. But whoever lives by the
truth comes into the light, so that it may be
seen plainly that what he has done has been
done through God."
(John 3:19-21 NIV)
--
If anyone speaks, he should do it as one
speaking the very words of God. If anyone
serves, he should do it with the strength God
provides, so that in all things God may be
praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the
glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen.
  (1Pe 4:11)
2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them
which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ,
who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2Co 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and
ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
2Co 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness,
hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the
glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
Sam Taylor
2012-01-21 00:58:38 UTC
Permalink
Linda's evening Prayer,
dear lord smite mine enemies , even harder
than I have.
I have lied about what they Believe, and Falsely accused them, and condemned
them for your Namesake.
How dare they treat Me, like I treat Them, Let Me
Dine in acceptence before them that are ignorant, Unwise,
and Stupid.
so they Might see I am your Special christian, and you are my poopsie
Woopsie Daddy.
Let them be accursed acording to My wise Judgements,
and Vinces Judgements, for thou has set us forth to
charictor assasinate all those We deem unworthy of You.
If they do let not their relationship with You, be as
Super, or Exhaulted as Mine and Vinces.
for those Cheif seats in your Synagog belong to us, that way We may Guide,
You into all Wisdom When You do actually Exist, as Vince says you and Jesus
and the Holy Ghost are Eternaly Prexistant, and vince knows best,
and I back You , by backing Him up.
A new Mercedes would be nice.
I love you My poopsie Woopsie
injesusnameiask
Amen
then back to Her Rightious work, on the newsgroups
Rod
2012-01-21 01:21:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Taylor
Linda's evening Prayer,
dear lord smite mine enemies , even harder
than I have.
I have lied about what they Believe, and Falsely accused them, and condemned
them for your Namesake.
How dare they treat Me, like I treat Them, Let Me
Dine in acceptence before them that are ignorant, Unwise,
and Stupid.
so they Might see I am your Special christian, and you are my poopsie
Woopsie Daddy.
Let them be accursed acording to My wise Judgements,
and Vinces Judgements, for thou has set us forth to
charictor assasinate all those We deem unworthy of You.
If they do let not their relationship with You, be as
Super, or Exhaulted as Mine and Vinces.
for those Cheif seats in your Synagog belong to us, that way We may Guide,
You into all Wisdom When You do actually Exist, as Vince says you and Jesus
and the Holy Ghost are Eternaly Prexistant, and vince knows best,
and I back You , by backing Him up.
A new Mercedes would be nice.
I love you My poopsie Woopsie
injesusnameiask
Amen
then back to Her Rightious work, on the newsgroups
he he he...

--
j***@satx.rr.com
2012-01-21 02:33:54 UTC
Permalink
Joh 3:19 -And this is the condemnation,
that light is come into the world,
and men loved darkness rather than light,
because their deeds were evil.
Anathema
2012-01-21 02:54:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@satx.rr.com
Joh 3:19 -And this is the condemnation,
that light is come into the world,
and men loved darkness rather than light,
because their deeds were evil.
Indeed.
Rod
2012-01-21 05:02:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@satx.rr.com
Joh 3:19 -And this is the condemnation,
that light is come into the world,
and men loved darkness rather than light,
because their deeds were evil.
Feeling a little dramatic..?

--
Linda Lee
2012-01-21 12:20:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@satx.rr.com
Joh 3:19 -And this is the condemnation,
               that light is come into the world,
               and men loved darkness rather than light,
               because their deeds were evil.
Good answer, and of course often the underlying cause of people
finding the Messiah's Gospel offensive is that they are at heart evil
people, and their problem is enmity with God. "if our gospel be hid,
it is hid to them that are lost" (II Cor.4:3). (But sometimes those
who find the Gospel offensive are newcomers, and have just begun
looking into the Scriptures, and no one knows how they will
persevere.)

However, in this case, I was really looking for the specific reasons
people say they reject the Gospel, other than the ones I listed. Some
say they 'accept Christ', but reject the traditional understanding of
the Gospel of Christ, so I was wondering what other objections they
had to it. Specifically, what is the problem? Is it simply that they
can't accept that the omnipotent God might incarnate as the Christ?
Is it that they don't like the idea of the forgiveness of sins and
find it to be unjust?

Or are there other reasons the Gospel is rejected?

Is it perceived as unfair and even threatening that the Messiah said
few would find the way of life and be saved and many would suffer
destruction (Matt. 7:13-14)?

What _exactly_ makes the Gospel of Christ offensive to them? There
must be more reasons than I have listed here.
vince garcia
2012-01-21 13:06:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Linda Lee
Post by j***@satx.rr.com
Joh 3:19 -And this is the condemnation,
that light is come into the world,
and men loved darkness rather than light,
because their deeds were evil.
Good answer, and of course often the underlying cause of people
finding the Messiah's Gospel offensive is that they are at heart evil
people, and their problem is enmity with God. "if our gospel be hid,
it is hid to them that are lost" (II Cor.4:3). (But sometimes those
who find the Gospel offensive are newcomers, and have just begun
looking into the Scriptures, and no one knows how they will
persevere.)
However, in this case, I was really looking for the specific reasons
people say they reject the Gospel, other than the ones I listed. Some
say they 'accept Christ', but reject the traditional understanding of
the Gospel of Christ, so I was wondering what other objections they
had to it. Specifically, what is the problem? Is it simply that they
can't accept that the omnipotent God might incarnate as the Christ?
Is it that they don't like the idea of the forgiveness of sins and
find it to be unjust?
Or are there other reasons the Gospel is rejected?
Is it perceived as unfair and even threatening that the Messiah said
few would find the way of life and be saved and many would suffer
destruction (Matt. 7:13-14)?
What _exactly_ makes the Gospel of Christ offensive to them? There
must be more reasons than I have listed here.
From what I've seen, there are at least two reasons:

one group wants to be free to live in sin so they reject.

Another group "accepts" it but refuses to rely on Christ's
righteousness, but ultimately insists on relying on their own
righteousness to get in.

The latter may be actually walking in greater blindness than the former
vince garcia
2012-01-21 11:51:23 UTC
Permalink
screw you, you piece of dung.
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
Absolutely I believe Jesus was pre-existent with the Father!

ANY real Christian believes that.

But not Sam Taylor…


To him, that's "HORSE SHIT"
Holy horse shit vince,
you believe jesus is "Eternally in the prexistence with G-D"…
Sam Taylor has explicitly denied he is a Chroistian or follows the
The G-D I serve is a different G-D than You serve,
Yours was created Years after, my Messiah was
Crucified, and accended unto his Father on High
giving gifts to men.
yours is the G-ds of Babylon, Egypt,of Medo persia, Greece, and Rome.
mine is the G-D of avraham Yisaak, and Yacob,
make Sure your g-ds are not in the bathroom,
when you decide you want to attack Me next.
"but to us their is But One G-D the father, and one
lord Jesus christ, Whom I call yashua the Messiah.
who himself prayed that Men may know THOU ALONE
art the Most High speaking of YHWH.
and the covenate given at Sinia, that YHWH alone would Be My G-D, I keep his
precepts and statutes, and Holy Days.
I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN, and have stated that Over, and Over again, I am a
Messianic Jew,
Xtians believe in the 3 G-ds of Big Daddy, JC, and the Spook
An example of Sam Taylor's TOTAL IGNORANCE OF HISTORY can be seen with
this stupid statement about the Septuagint NOT even being conceived in
the time of Mary.
Vince
how did [Mary] do that since the First Septuagent
had not yet been concieved of, and or produced?
mybe She was physic or Somethin?
yup that are it.....She waz Physic!....GOLLY GEEWILIKERS
Sam
It was written 100-300 years before Christ. Sam Taylor posts that it
wasn't yet written when Mary was told she would give birth to Christ


Sam Taylor claims Jesus was probably married BECAUSE HE HAD A BEARD!!!.
With the fact the messiah had a beard, that probubly means he was
married.
He has an aberrant view of the way Jews view the Law.
Jews are REQUIRED THE ! COMMANDMENTS
(the 10 Commandments)
and Teaching their Children of The Holy Days of YHWH
and HIS STATUTES!
( the Number is 57 not 613)
this is how Orthadox and Conservative, and Reform
can be all Considered JEWS iregardless of KOSHER
and other ways of observance.
To a Jew the Laws of Moses are seperated from the "LAW OF YHWH You
call the 10 Comandments
To us these [the 10] are the Basis of Our morality.
the others are Rules, not Commandments
This was all refuted by true Jew Rob Strom (whom sam called a
"Xtian"!*), who said: "Sam's view doesn't map to either traditional
or Reform Judaism."
* When Rob agrees with Your Doctrine of G-D he is INDEED a Xtian! and
NOT A JEW.
He has shown either complete ignorance of Christian history, or else is
a bold faced liar regarding it.
there is no reference to Communion being offered other than Passover
until the 6th Century...
the Communion offering was not a weekly "Sunday"
observation in Catholosism until the 6th century, before it was done Yearly
on a Memorial service in Your Easter Pagan Holiday.
Refuted by the first century didache, which even talks about taking
communion every sunday, and gives prayers for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The Didascalia in the 3rd century mentioned it:

"The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there
be service, and the reading of the holy scriptures, and the oblation
[communion], because on the first day of the week [i.e., Sunday] our
Lord rose from the place of the dead, and on the first day of the week
he arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week he ascended up
to heaven, and on the first day of the week he will appear at last with
the angels of heaven" (Didascalia 2 [A.D. 225]).

It was WEEKLY OR DAILY for MANY, MANY years, including the years of the
sources I cited which mention it being taken EVERY SUNDAY! Pope Fabian
in the 200s even made it mandatory to receive communion AT LEAST--get
that, AT LEAST--THREE times a year...not 'ONCE a year and NO MORE' as
you are trying to claim. Even Augustine wrote about daily communion
being up to the individual.

He has shown complete ignorance regarding the greek language and the
"Jesus means of Zeus or Nike"
Refuted by citing an article on the actual greek, comparing and showing
photos of ancient greek inscriptions proving this claim to be utterly
false
Jews do NOT believe Man has a Soul!
You as a Xtian believe You have an ImortalSoul, and we believe We ARE a
mortal Soul We believe We Jews do Die, You believe You shed Your body
to life Soul Life forever either singing, or Screaming
Refuted by what REAL Jews say about the afterlife, compared to false
"jew," Sam taylor, who says they believe you're dead like a dog once
you're dead


Chabod.org: The soul is liberated from the body and returns closer to
her source than ever before.
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2970/jewish/Do-Jews-Believe-in-an-Afterlife.htm

Answers.com: After a Jew dies his soul goes to heaven where it is judged
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Do_Jews_believe_in_an_afterlife#ixzz18hiVUYyy

Ask Rabbi Simmons: When a person dies and goes to heaven, the judgment
is not arbitrary and externally imposed.
http://judaism.about.com/library/3_askrabbi_o/bl_simmons_afterlife.htm

Judaism 101: Traditional Judaism firmly believes that death is not the
end of human existence. There is clear evidence in the Torah of belief
in
existence after death.
http://www.jewfaq.org/olamhaba.htm

Ask Moses: Simply put, yes--but what we believe in might better be
called "life after life." According to Jewish belief, it is only the
body that dies, while the soul lives on into eternity.
http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/614%2C223/Do-Jews-believe-in-an-after-life.html

wiki answers: According to Maimonides, an afterlife continues for the
soul of every human being, a soul now separated from the body in which
it was "housed" during its earthly existence.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_type_of_afterlife_do_Jewish_people_believe_in#ixzz18hkPK4eT

juicy jews: The short answer is YES, we do!
http://juicyjews.com/jewish-religious-questions/do-jews-believe-in-an-afterlife-or-heaven/

Jewish home lifecare: The "classic" Jewish belief is that when we die,
only the body dies, and the soul lives forever with God.
http://www.jewishhome.org/life-with-us/religious-and-spiritual-life-at-jewish-home/jewish-beliefs-and-traditions/death-and-afterlife


MORE SAM TAYLOR LIES...


You claimed that Nazi Skinheads broke into your shop in San Francisco
and beat you and your Jewish customers. (a lie)

You claimed that you filed and won a lawsuit against the American Nazi
Party (a lie quickly revealed by checking the record of lawsuits against
the ANP, which showed NO RECORD of one by a Sam Taylor)


He has been repeatedly exposed as a liar


So when Sam Taylor starts giving a lesson on the Greek langauge and how
that 'proves' essentials of the Christian faith are WRONG...I trust the
readers of his posts will treat it as it deserves to be treated


"You say odd, suspicious things. And odd usually equals evil."
--Linda Lee
Linda Lee
2012-01-21 12:46:30 UTC
Permalink
On Jan 21, 6:51 am, vince garcia <***@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

Notice that some people reply to this thread, but seem afraid to say
why they find the Gospel offensive. Instead they've come to hate,
attack, and condemn, as usual, temporarily suspending their claim of
superior holiness because they pay lip service to the words "the law"
as did the unrighteous Pharisees.

Some try to slither around their rejection, seemingly afraid to say
that they find the church's traditional understanding of the Gospel of
Christ offensive, and instead call it things like "vince's theology",
as you quoted here.

Perhaps they're afraid to condemn themselves with words saying they
find Christ's Gospel offensive. I think Christ knows who finds his
Gospel offensive without any outright admission. It would benefit
some to examine their beliefs and determine what core beliefs lead
them to reject parts of the Gospel. With some here, I suspect it is
simply an unjustified sense of superiority over others that leads them
to attack the Gospel and those who accept it, and that they'll never
change.

Mat 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto
your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give
good things to them that ask him?
Mat 7:12 Therefore all things __whatsoever ye would that men should
do to you, do ye even so to them: for THIS is the law and the
prophets.__
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and
broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which
go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which
leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's
clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits.


II Cor. 4:3, "But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are
lost".
vince garcia
2012-01-21 11:51:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Taylor
Linda's evening Prayer,
dear lord smite mine enemies , even harder
than I have.
I have lied about what they Believe, and Falsely accused them, and condemned
them for your Namesake.
How dare they treat Me, like I treat Them, Let Me
Dine in acceptence before them that are ignorant, Unwise,
and Stupid.
so they Might see I am your Special christian, and you are my poopsie
Woopsie Daddy.
Let them be accursed acording to My wise Judgements,
and Vinces Judgements, for thou has set us forth to
charictor assasinate all those We deem unworthy of You.
If they do let not their relationship with You, be as
Super, or Exhaulted as Mine and Vinces.
for those Cheif seats in your Synagog belong to us, that way We may Guide,
You into all Wisdom When You do actually Exist, as Vince says you and Jesus
and the Holy Ghost are Eternaly Prexistant, and vince knows best,
and I back You , by backing Him up.
A new Mercedes would be nice.
I love you My poopsie Woopsie
injesusnameiask
Amen
then back to Her Rightious work, on the newsgroups
screw you, you piece of dung.
Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
Absolutely I believe Jesus was pre-existent with the Father!

ANY real Christian believes that.

But not Sam Taylor…


To him, that's "HORSE SHIT"
Post by Sam Taylor
Holy horse shit vince,
you believe jesus is "Eternally in the prexistence with G-D"…
Sam Taylor has explicitly denied he is a Chroistian or follows the
Post by Sam Taylor
The G-D I serve is a different G-D than You serve,
Yours was created Years after, my Messiah was
Crucified, and accended unto his Father on High
giving gifts to men.
yours is the G-ds of Babylon, Egypt,of Medo persia, Greece, and Rome.
mine is the G-D of avraham Yisaak, and Yacob,
make Sure your g-ds are not in the bathroom,
when you decide you want to attack Me next.
"but to us their is But One G-D the father, and one
lord Jesus christ, Whom I call yashua the Messiah.
who himself prayed that Men may know THOU ALONE
art the Most High speaking of YHWH.
and the covenate given at Sinia, that YHWH alone would Be My G-D, I keep his
precepts and statutes, and Holy Days.
I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN, and have stated that Over, and Over again, I am a
Messianic Jew,
Xtians believe in the 3 G-ds of Big Daddy, JC, and the Spook
An example of Sam Taylor's TOTAL IGNORANCE OF HISTORY can be seen with
this stupid statement about the Septuagint NOT even being conceived in
the time of Mary.
Post by Sam Taylor
Vince
how did [Mary] do that since the First Septuagent
had not yet been concieved of, and or produced?
mybe She was physic or Somethin?
yup that are it.....She waz Physic!....GOLLY GEEWILIKERS
Sam
It was written 100-300 years before Christ. Sam Taylor posts that it
wasn't yet written when Mary was told she would give birth to Christ


Sam Taylor claims Jesus was probably married BECAUSE HE HAD A BEARD!!!.
Post by Sam Taylor
With the fact the messiah had a beard, that probubly means he was
married.
He has an aberrant view of the way Jews view the Law.
Post by Sam Taylor
Jews are REQUIRED THE ! COMMANDMENTS
(the 10 Commandments)
and Teaching their Children of The Holy Days of YHWH
and HIS STATUTES!
( the Number is 57 not 613)
this is how Orthadox and Conservative, and Reform
can be all Considered JEWS iregardless of KOSHER
and other ways of observance.
To a Jew the Laws of Moses are seperated from the "LAW OF YHWH You
call the 10 Comandments
To us these [the 10] are the Basis of Our morality.
the others are Rules, not Commandments
This was all refuted by true Jew Rob Strom (whom sam called a
"Xtian"!*), who said: "Sam's view doesn't map to either traditional
or Reform Judaism."
Post by Sam Taylor
* When Rob agrees with Your Doctrine of G-D he is INDEED a Xtian! and
NOT A JEW.
He has shown either complete ignorance of Christian history, or else is
a bold faced liar regarding it.
Post by Sam Taylor
there is no reference to Communion being offered other than Passover
until the 6th Century...
the Communion offering was not a weekly "Sunday"
observation in Catholosism until the 6th century, before it was done Yearly
on a Memorial service in Your Easter Pagan Holiday.
Refuted by the first century didache, which even talks about taking
communion every sunday, and gives prayers for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The Didascalia in the 3rd century mentioned it:

"The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there
be service, and the reading of the holy scriptures, and the oblation
[communion], because on the first day of the week [i.e., Sunday] our
Lord rose from the place of the dead, and on the first day of the week
he arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week he ascended up
to heaven, and on the first day of the week he will appear at last with
the angels of heaven" (Didascalia 2 [A.D. 225]).

It was WEEKLY OR DAILY for MANY, MANY years, including the years of the
sources I cited which mention it being taken EVERY SUNDAY! Pope Fabian
in the 200s even made it mandatory to receive communion AT LEAST--get
that, AT LEAST--THREE times a year...not 'ONCE a year and NO MORE' as
you are trying to claim. Even Augustine wrote about daily communion
being up to the individual.

He has shown complete ignorance regarding the greek language and the
Post by Sam Taylor
"Jesus means of Zeus or Nike"
Refuted by citing an article on the actual greek, comparing and showing
photos of ancient greek inscriptions proving this claim to be utterly
false
Post by Sam Taylor
Jews do NOT believe Man has a Soul!
You as a Xtian believe You have an ImortalSoul, and we believe We ARE a
mortal Soul We believe We Jews do Die, You believe You shed Your body
to life Soul Life forever either singing, or Screaming
Refuted by what REAL Jews say about the afterlife, compared to false
"jew," Sam taylor, who says they believe you're dead like a dog once
you're dead


Chabod.org: The soul is liberated from the body and returns closer to
her source than ever before.
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2970/jewish/Do-Jews-Believe-in-an-Afterlife.htm

Answers.com: After a Jew dies his soul goes to heaven where it is judged
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Do_Jews_believe_in_an_afterlife#ixzz18hiVUYyy

Ask Rabbi Simmons: When a person dies and goes to heaven, the judgment
is not arbitrary and externally imposed.
http://judaism.about.com/library/3_askrabbi_o/bl_simmons_afterlife.htm

Judaism 101: Traditional Judaism firmly believes that death is not the
end of human existence. There is clear evidence in the Torah of belief
in
existence after death.
http://www.jewfaq.org/olamhaba.htm

Ask Moses: Simply put, yes--but what we believe in might better be
called "life after life." According to Jewish belief, it is only the
body that dies, while the soul lives on into eternity.
http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/614%2C223/Do-Jews-believe-in-an-after-life.html

wiki answers: According to Maimonides, an afterlife continues for the
soul of every human being, a soul now separated from the body in which
it was "housed" during its earthly existence.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_type_of_afterlife_do_Jewish_people_believe_in#ixzz18hkPK4eT

juicy jews: The short answer is YES, we do!
http://juicyjews.com/jewish-religious-questions/do-jews-believe-in-an-afterlife-or-heaven/

Jewish home lifecare: The "classic" Jewish belief is that when we die,
only the body dies, and the soul lives forever with God.
http://www.jewishhome.org/life-with-us/religious-and-spiritual-life-at-jewish-home/jewish-beliefs-and-traditions/death-and-afterlife


MORE SAM TAYLOR LIES...


You claimed that Nazi Skinheads broke into your shop in San Francisco
and beat you and your Jewish customers. (a lie)

You claimed that you filed and won a lawsuit against the American Nazi
Party (a lie quickly revealed by checking the record of lawsuits against
the ANP, which showed NO RECORD of one by a Sam Taylor)


He has been repeatedly exposed as a liar


So when Sam Taylor starts giving a lesson on the Greek langauge and how
that 'proves' essentials of the Christian faith are WRONG...I trust the
readers of his posts will treat it as it deserves to be treated


"You say odd, suspicious things. And odd usually equals evil."
--Linda Lee
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