The Doctrine of "Total Depravity". I invite anyone to sensibly comment.

[Michael McLean]

The Doctrine of "Total Depravity"
by John Reisinger
One form of sin will often exclude another form of sin. (1) The "miser"
will be delivered from the sin of "wastefulness." (2) The "work-a-holic"
will be delivered from sloth and laziness. (3) The "Pride of position"
will often exclude immorality but only for fear of being caught.
Shakespeare said it well: "I see it has pleased Devil drunkenness to
give place to Devil wrath."
This truth explains the "apparent" change in some men when elevated to a
position of authority. Their nice personality is replaced with a
tyrannical attitude. Actually the man did not really change at all. His
true self came to the surface for the first time. The man was always
like that in his heart but he never had the authority or opportunity to
demonstrate it.

Bob, you should listen to this.

I listened to RC Sproul yesterday talk about "Election" and
"Predestination", and I think I understand the point where he left the
path now.  What he said was right in his own eyes but he had a
foundational problem.

"Nothing to the table I bring", is his doctrine, and that is true, but
the problem is "belief", an independent capacity to believe that God put
in us.

That is why He said...

Joh 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten
Son, that whosoever BELIEVETH in him should not perish, but have
everlasting life.

He did not say, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only
begotten Son, so that he could pull your totally dead being out of the
ocean, and give you everlasting life.

He put a requirement on every living soul...to believe.

Let me explain further; this is important.

We are "belief beings." "Belief" is not good, and it is not evil.  What
we believe "in" might be good or evil, but "belief" in itself is not
depravity.  I believe I like strawberries. Is that depraved?  So, we are
more than depraved beings.

Think of it like a fish swimming, or like us swimming.  Swimming is not
subject to depravity; it just is, and "belief" is belief; it just is.
 Sproul hasn't realised that, and it really fatally undermines what he
says.

He presupposes depravity determines belief, and it does in fallen human
beings, but our "belief being" is more than good or evil (depravity).  I
can prove that to you.

I am sitting on a park bench.  Where is the good, and where is the evil?
 I breathe, where is the good and where is the evil.  I eat, where is
the good, where is the evil.  Please note, those are all acts of belief,
I sit on the park bench because I believe I am suited to that in the
moment, I breathe because my body believes it is in need of oxygen, I
eat believing it will give nutrition to my body.

In every way, we are belief beings, and our being is more than good or
evil.  I am going to prove that to you below too!

So, saying we are all depraved, as in, that is all we are, is a sweeping
and narrow and false blanket statement. Yes, human beings are depraved,
unless transformed by God in our inner being, but every human being is
GREATER than good or evil; if we were just one or the other, we would be
an adjective.

The Lord Jesus Christ didn't go to the cross for good to defeat evil
only, to fix a "thing" problem.  He went to the cross for much more than
that, for living souls beyond the value of the knowledge of good and evil.

Luk_23:34  Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what
they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

Read on, I am going to prove to you, as "belief beings", that we are
greater than a classification of "total depravity", from which all
things reformed theology is judged - Sproul's flaw.

That "belief" essence in each of us is where free will comes in, which
is not based on good or evil, it is just choice.  Now think of Adam and
Eve in the garden.  No sin has yet been committed.

At that point.

They are faced with a choice, a choice of belief, because they are
primarily "belief beings", and so are we.  Again, no sin has yet been
committed.  Are you hearing? Are you seeing?  And that is where Sproul -
who I happen to like very much - theology is flawed, because man is not
just depravity and inert dead bodies at the bottom of the ocean.  We are
living, breathing souls, belief beings...like our Creator.

And like Him, we have a free choice.

Yes, we have the knowledge of good and evil, and we chose evil, but we
still have the capacity in us as "belief beings" to believe God, and
repent for our own good (what He calls for), not because we are good,
but because we are "belief beings" and He gave us a free choice to do so.

God does not want anyone to be forced to want Him; He wants us to freely
elect to want Him, and in a sense it is no different to what type of
chocolate you choose to eat.  However, God forbid, it is not such a
trivial matter, nor does God equate to the value of chocolate.

Isn't that ironic in light of us holding elections all around the world?
We elect on a purely arbitrary basis, and so it is when we come as
"belief beings" in electing God as the Lord of our lives.

Therein you see the supreme humility of a supreme and wonderful,
staggeringly beautiful, and consummate perfection of the character of
our Creator.  He could just flick his finger, and we'd be gone, unworthy
of tying his shoelaces...yet.

Any questions?


Michael McLean

PS: When I get to it, I am going to post my early testimony which
highlights what is said above.
--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"Sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time."

[Michael McLean]

The Doctrine of "Total Depravity"

It is a lie because we are more than total depravity.

We are beings of belief.

Hence...

Jesus said repent and believe in Me. If we were just total depravity,
it would be impossible to do what Jesus asked.

And you wouldn't even have a total depravity doctrine if you were
totally depraved because you presuppose your doctrine to be good doctrine.





Mike

by John Reisinger
1. Total depravity means that every sinner, including you and me, is
destitute or without that love to God which constitutes the fundamental
and all-inclusive demand of God's law. The one great thing that all men
owe to God is the one thing that they adamantly refuse to give Him.
"Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting
him, and saying, 'Master, which is the great commandment in the law?'
Jesus said unto him, 'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy
heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and
great commandment.'"
[Matthew 22:35-38]

--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"Sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time."

[Dr. Who]

Post by Michael McLean

The Doctrine of "Total Depravity"

It is a lie because we are more than total depravity.
We are beings of belief.

Also beings of doubt and disbelief, with hearts as hardened as a rock.

Post by Michael McLean
Hence...
Jesus said repent and believe in Me. If we were just total depravity,
it would be impossible to do what Jesus asked.
And you wouldn't even have a total depravity doctrine if you were
totally depraved because you presuppose your doctrine to be good doctrine.
Mike

by John Reisinger
1. Total depravity means that every sinner, including you and me, is
destitute or without that love to God which constitutes the fundamental
and all-inclusive demand of God's law. The one great thing that all men
owe to God is the one thing that they adamantly refuse to give Him.
"Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting
him, and saying, 'Master, which is the great commandment in the law?'
Jesus said unto him, 'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy
heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and
great commandment.'"
[Matthew 22:35-38]

[Michael McLean]

Post by Dr. Who

Post by Michael McLean

The Doctrine of "Total Depravity"

It is a lie because we are more than total depravity.
We are beings of belief.

Also beings of doubt and disbelief,

They are beliefs. You know nothing.

We are beings of belief! Period.

Post by Dr. Who
with hearts as hardened as a rock.

That is you, Robert Righteousness.

All because the ways of God are not the ways of your religion!



Mike

Post by Dr. Who

Post by Michael McLean
Hence...
Jesus said repent and believe in Me. If we were just total depravity,
it would be impossible to do what Jesus asked.
And you wouldn't even have a total depravity doctrine if you were
totally depraved because you presuppose your doctrine to be good doctrine.
Mike

by John Reisinger
1. Total depravity means that every sinner, including you and me, is
destitute or without that love to God which constitutes the fundamental
and all-inclusive demand of God's law. The one great thing that all men
owe to God is the one thing that they adamantly refuse to give Him.
"Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting
him, and saying, 'Master, which is the great commandment in the law?'
Jesus said unto him, 'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy
heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and
great commandment.'"
[Matthew 22:35-38]

--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"Sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time."

[Dr. Who]

Post by Dr. Who

Post by Michael McLean

The Doctrine of "Total Depravity"

It is a lie because we are more than total depravity.
We are beings of belief.

Also beings of doubt and disbelief,

They are beliefs. You know nothing.
We are beings of belief! Period.

So when you say you believe, you might really mean that you doubt, gotcha!

Post by Dr. Who
with hearts as hardened as a rock.

That is you, Robert Righteousness.
All because the ways of God are not the ways of your religion!
Mike

Post by Dr. Who

Post by Michael McLean
Hence...
Jesus said repent and believe in Me. If we were just total depravity,
it would be impossible to do what Jesus asked.
And you wouldn't even have a total depravity doctrine if you were
totally depraved because you presuppose your doctrine to be good doctrine.
Mike

by John Reisinger
1. Total depravity means that every sinner, including you and me, is
destitute or without that love to God which constitutes the fundamental
and all-inclusive demand of God's law. The one great thing that all men
owe to God is the one thing that they adamantly refuse to give Him.
"Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting
him, and saying, 'Master, which is the great commandment in the law?'
Jesus said unto him, 'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy
heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and
great commandment.'"
[Matthew 22:35-38]

[Michael McLean]

Post by Dr. Who

Post by Dr. Who

Post by Michael McLean

The Doctrine of "Total Depravity"

It is a lie because we are more than total depravity.
We are beings of belief.

Also beings of doubt and disbelief,

They are beliefs. You know nothing.
We are beings of belief! Period.

So when you say you believe, you might really mean that you doubt, gotcha!

Wanker!

Is that what you believe? :-).

How can you have doubt? Through what you believe, you smelly
self-righteous blind and deaf religionist! No matter what it is, you
skew it to try and be right! Sorry, in that wide road, you will never
be right or righteous.

Your head if filled with superficial fallen man humanism, Robert
Righteousness.

Serves you right, Pharisee



Mike

Post by Dr. Who

Post by Dr. Who
with hearts as hardened as a rock.

That is you, Robert Righteousness.
All because the ways of God are not the ways of your religion!
Mike

Post by Dr. Who

Post by Michael McLean
Hence...
Jesus said repent and believe in Me. If we were just total depravity,
it would be impossible to do what Jesus asked.
And you wouldn't even have a total depravity doctrine if you were
totally depraved because you presuppose your doctrine to be good doctrine.
Mike

by John Reisinger
1. Total depravity means that every sinner, including you and me, is
destitute or without that love to God which constitutes the fundamental
and all-inclusive demand of God's law. The one great thing that all men
owe to God is the one thing that they adamantly refuse to give Him.
"Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting
him, and saying, 'Master, which is the great commandment in the law?'
Jesus said unto him, 'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy
heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and
great commandment.'"
[Matthew 22:35-38]

--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"Sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time."

[Dr. Who]

Post by Michael McLean

Post by Dr. Who

Post by Dr. Who

Post by Michael McLean

The Doctrine of "Total Depravity"

It is a lie because we are more than total depravity.
We are beings of belief.

Also beings of doubt and disbelief,

They are beliefs. You know nothing.
We are beings of belief! Period.

So when you say you believe, you might really mean that you doubt, gotcha!

Wanker!
Is that what you believe? :-).

That was your definition, not mine. I just applied your definition as you
might use it and then claim no one understands you.

Post by Michael McLean
How can you have doubt? Through what you believe, you smelly
self-righteous blind and deaf religionist! No matter what it is, you
skew it to try and be right! Sorry, in that wide road, you will never
be right or righteous.

In the Lord I do not dwell in doubt and disbelief as I walk by faith. Yet
here you are a tool of satan with false accusations. May you see the peace.
Love and Joy of the Holy Spirit.

Post by Michael McLean
Your head if filled with superficial fallen man humanism, Robert
Righteousness.
Serves you right, Pharisee
Mike

Post by Dr. Who

Post by Dr. Who
with hearts as hardened as a rock.

That is you, Robert Righteousness.
All because the ways of God are not the ways of your religion!
Mike

Post by Dr. Who

Post by Michael McLean
Hence...
Jesus said repent and believe in Me. If we were just total depravity,
it would be impossible to do what Jesus asked.
And you wouldn't even have a total depravity doctrine if you were
totally depraved because you presuppose your doctrine to be good doctrine.
Mike

by John Reisinger
1. Total depravity means that every sinner, including you and me, is
destitute or without that love to God which constitutes the fundamental
and all-inclusive demand of God's law. The one great thing that all men
owe to God is the one thing that they adamantly refuse to give Him.
"Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting
him, and saying, 'Master, which is the great commandment in the law?'
Jesus said unto him, 'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy
heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first
and
great commandment.'"
[Matthew 22:35-38]

[Michael McLean]

Post by Dr. Who

Post by Michael McLean

Post by Dr. Who

Post by Dr. Who

Post by Michael McLean

The Doctrine of "Total Depravity"

It is a lie because we are more than total depravity.
We are beings of belief.

Also beings of doubt and disbelief,

They are beliefs. You know nothing.
We are beings of belief! Period.

So when you say you believe, you might really mean that you doubt, gotcha!

Wanker!
Is that what you believe? :-).

That was your definition, not mine. I just applied your definition as you
might use it and then claim no one understands you.

Post by Michael McLean
How can you have doubt? Through what you believe, you smelly
self-righteous blind and deaf religionist! No matter what it is, you
skew it to try and be right! Sorry, in that wide road, you will never
be right or righteous.

In the Lord I do not dwell in doubt and disbelief as I walk by faith. Yet
here you are a tool of satan with false accusations. May you see the peace.
Love and Joy of the Holy Spirit.

Post by Michael McLean
Your head if filled with superficial fallen man humanism, Robert
Righteousness.
Serves you right, Pharisee
Mike

Post by Dr. Who

Post by Dr. Who
with hearts as hardened as a rock.

That is you, Robert Righteousness.
All because the ways of God are not the ways of your religion!
Mike

Post by Dr. Who

Post by Michael McLean
Hence...
Jesus said repent and believe in Me. If we were just total depravity,
it would be impossible to do what Jesus asked.
And you wouldn't even have a total depravity doctrine if you were
totally depraved because you presuppose your doctrine to be good doctrine.
Mike

by John Reisinger
1. Total depravity means that every sinner, including you and me, is
destitute or without that love to God which constitutes the fundamental
and all-inclusive demand of God's law. The one great thing that all men
owe to God is the one thing that they adamantly refuse to give Him.
"Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting
him, and saying, 'Master, which is the great commandment in the law?'
Jesus said unto him, 'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy
heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and
great commandment.'"
[Matthew 22:35-38]

Away with you foul lying spirit, strive to be righteous with somebody else.

Thank you, thank you very much.

Try your own ilk!





Mike
--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"Sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time."

[Michael McLean]

The Doctrine of "Total Depravity"

The doctrine of "Total Depravity" is the doctrine of those who think
they are not totally depraved but righteous!

It is funny, isn't it! :-).




Mike

by John Reisinger
All men, without a single exception, are guilty of this sin. They simply
do not "love God" and put Him first in any sense. They are commanded to
do this 24 hours every day, but lost sinners have never consciously ever
done one single thing in their whole life for the express purpose of
glorifying God. They live to please themselves and have no thought of
their indebtedness to God. I once pressed this fact on a high school
teacher and he claimed that his three children were produced out of
obedience to God's command to "be fruitful and multiply." When I asked
if that was the only motive involved, he grinned and said, "Well, maybe
not entirely."
This is what Jesus meant in John 5:42: "But I know that you do not have
the love of God within you." That is, we lack the one thing essential in
order to please God. We are not at all motivated by either duty or love
to God. We are motivated entirely by sin and self.

--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"Sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time."

[Michael McLean]

The Doctrine of "Total Depravity"
by John Reisinger
2. Total Depravity means

Total depravity. That is what you mean.

But we are more than a definition.

We are beings of belief. And that is why the Lord said, repent and
believe in Me. That is not contingent on being the sum of total
depravity, but of free will.

That is what makes the supposedly "good" totally depraved doctrine from
misguided - "beings of belief" - religious people a false doctrine.
Or...if you are totally depraved and that is all you are, how is it you
can come up with this flawless perfect doctrine? Does righteousness
spring from sin?

I doubt you would get it, Bob.



Mike


that every person is guilty of elevating some

lower affection or desire above regard for God, His Law, and the Gospel.
This is the opposite of #1. Sinners not only do not love the true God and
put Him first, but they do love some other god and put that false god
first.
"For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant,
abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless,
unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good,
treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather
than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its
power. Avoid such people."
[2 Timothy 3:2-5]

--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"Sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time."

[Michael McLean]

The Doctrine of "Total Depravity"
by John Reisinger
4. Total Depravity means that everyone is possessed with a nature,
inherited from Adam's fall, that is completely hostile toward God. We
were all born with a "positive" aversion to God and His authority. By
nature, everybody wants "his own way." Romans 8:7 makes this fact
very clear. "The sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to
God's law, nor can it do so."
The obvious question is, "Why does man not feel this awful hostility
that, according to the Scripture, is in his heart?" The answer is simple.
"But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced
in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. Once
I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin
sprang to life and I died. I found that the very commandment that was
intended to bring life actually brought death. For sin, seizing the
opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the
commandment put me to death."
[Romans 7:8-11]

Now think about this, Bob: can Paul, being totally depraved, and being
nothing more than that, can Paul possibly comprehend the righteousness
of what he is saying, or can you?

We are more than good and evil, we are beings of belief.  That is why we
can repent and believe.

RC Sproul and reformed theology were wrong.  You didn't go deep enough.

It doesn't matter if you don't believe me; it won't change the reality,
and that is why you can't address it.

See how that works?  You can't be (totally depraved) and not know the
truth and be (totally depraved) and know the truth at the same time in
the same relationship; you can't break the law of non-contradiction;
even your Sproul taught that.




Mike
--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time."

"The veil of the temple was not rent in twain to pass a bible through
for you to control in your own righteousness."

[Michael McLean]

And a snip back at ya, Smirky Duncan Depravity, but it doesn't make the
truth go away.

Tell me, Oh Truth Full Sinner, how is it that you can have a doctrine of
total depravity, which is believed in your camp to be a good doctrine,
out of total depravity?

Doth purity doctrine spring forth from total depravity in a sinner?

We are more than the doctrine of good and evil, and you are trying to
justify yourself and set yourself apart, Bubba Duncan; we are beings of
belief.

Repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, like anyone can, like the
man did on the cross next to Jesus.

Simple. You are wasting your time trying to justify yourself with the
bullshit doctrine of exclusivity, sinner. You are not a better class of
filthy sinner, Ye self-righteous prick, Duncan Depravity.






Mike
--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time."

"The veil of the temple was not rent in twain to pass a bible through
for you to control in your own righteousness."

[Michael McLean]

The Doctrine of "Total Depravity"

Is delusion. We are more than good and evil.

Anyone and all can repent and believe, as the Lord Jesus calls for,
because we are beings of belief.

(KJV)
Luk 23:41  And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our
deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
Luk 23:42  And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest
into thy kingdom.
Luk 23:43  And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt
thou be with me in paradise.

Try it, Bob, or stay in your deluded, totally depraved false doctrine of
yourself being totally depraved. :-).

Oh, how could sinners be so wrong and not have a perfect theology???!!!
I believed in it all my life???!!

:-). What's the surprise.





Mike

by John Reisinger
This hostility, or enmity, is against God's authority, and as long as a
man is not forced to think about God's authority, that man will not feel
the hostility that is in his heart. However, when God's law, or
authority, is pressed on the man's conscience, then the enmity that is
buried in his nature will surface. As long as the sinner sincerely
believes that he "free to do as he chooses, and as long as he has a
false view of God, especially God's sovereignty and his duty to God, he
will never feel either guilty or angry toward God. However, when God's
true character as Sovereign Law Giver and Judge is pressed on the
sinner, then the sparks begin to fly. This rarely happens today simply
because our generation has been lulled to sleep by a totally false view
of a "God of love."

--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time."

"The veil of the temple was not rent in twain to pass a bible through
for you to control in your own righteousness."

[Michael McLean]

And an incoherent snip back at cha, Mr Credibility Itselfer.
Mike

Too much booze? ;)

"Incoherent" and "Credibility Itselfer", ring any bells? :-).
Let's see...

You asked what does God want, and so I assumed it was for you life. So
I asked Him and he led me to that verse. And the preceding comment.

I did not ask what exactly do you want!!!
I asked, "What exactly does God want?"
So, if you are the man of the Spirit you herald yourself to be, "What
exactly does God want???
You should know God's heart if you are what you claim to be.
What's the problem?

The problem is that you could not read with understanding, what I wrote.
You asked me what God wanted, so I asked him for you.
You saw the answer.

What are you worried about? This is about your claimed knowing of God.

Your Bible quoting was just your personal Robert judgement on your
neighbour, as per usual, Condemner of Souls.

"What exactly does God want", Oh Great Religious Walker in the Holy Spirit?

Now's your chance to show them who you really are.




Mike
--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that you can play God."

[Dr. Who]

And an incoherent snip back at cha, Mr Credibility Itselfer.
Mike

Too much booze? ;)

"Incoherent" and "Credibility Itselfer", ring any bells? :-).
Let's see...

You asked what does God want, and so I assumed it was for you life. So
I asked Him and he led me to that verse. And the preceding comment.

I did not ask what exactly do you want!!!
I asked, "What exactly does God want?"
So, if you are the man of the Spirit you herald yourself to be, "What
exactly does God want???
You should know God's heart if you are what you claim to be.
What's the problem?

The problem is that you could not read with understanding, what I wrote.
You asked me what God wanted, so I asked him for you.
You saw the answer.

What are you worried about? This is about your claimed knowing of God.
Your Bible quoting was just your personal Robert judgement on your
neighbour, as per usual, Condemner of Souls.
"What exactly does God want", Oh Great Religious Walker in the Holy Spirit?
Now's your chance to show them who you really are.
Mike

2Pe 3:17-18

17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye
also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own
stedfastness.

18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus
Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

I am not the man I was a week ago, nor am I the man I hope to be next week,
as I grow in Grace.

[Michael McLean]

Post by Dr. Who

And an incoherent snip back at cha, Mr Credibility Itselfer.
Mike

Too much booze? ;)

"Incoherent" and "Credibility Itselfer", ring any bells? :-).
Let's see...

You asked what does God want, and so I assumed it was for you life. So
I asked Him and he led me to that verse. And the preceding comment.

I did not ask what exactly do you want!!!
I asked, "What exactly does God want?"
So, if you are the man of the Spirit you herald yourself to be, "What
exactly does God want???
You should know God's heart if you are what you claim to be.
What's the problem?

The problem is that you could not read with understanding, what I wrote.
You asked me what God wanted, so I asked him for you.
You saw the answer.

What are you worried about? This is about your claimed knowing of God.
Your Bible quoting was just your personal Robert judgement on your
neighbour, as per usual, Condemner of Souls.
"What exactly does God want", Oh Great Religious Walker in the Holy Spirit?
Now's your chance to show them who you really are.

Bible quoting Robert who is not the righteousness of the scriptures

Post by Dr. Who
2Pe 3:17-18
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye
also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own
stedfastness.
18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus
Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
I am not the man I was a week ago, nor am I the man I hope to be next week,
as I grow in Grace.

No, it is not about you and your glorious, self-worshiping,
self-righteous, holy humanistic standards setting self!

"What exactly does ===>>> GOD <<<=== want?"




Mike
--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that you can play God."

[Michael McLean]

The Doctrine of "Total Depravity"
by John Reisinger

If total depravity was ALL we were, none of us could be saved.

An experiment was made of twenty children.

Twenty children are in a classroom, and all desire the sweets the
teacher has on his desk.  The teacher says to the students, "Please, no
one touch these until I return."

On the teacher's return, thirteen children took some sweets, seven did not.

If all the children were totally depraved and nothing more than that,
they all would have taken the sweets.

Why, then, did some take some and why did some not?  It was simply a
matter of belief. However, all twenty children are fallen creatures,
sinners, so none are righteous. Seven just chose to believe the sweets
weren't worth the cost.

Good and evil are a "consequence" of what you believe; good and evil is
only a "knowledge" (Genesis 2:9, 2:17, 3:22). We all have believed a lie
(trapped in a matrix), just like Adam and Eve, and now we sit in a
consequence where we have no power in ourselves to remove ourselves.

God entered that "consequence" and said, "Repent" (rethink) and believe
in Him (the red pill).  And if you choose to do so as a free-will
creature, He will remove you from that consequence in His great love,
grace, and mercy.

Gen 3:22  And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us,
to know good and evil: and now, ***lest HE put forth HIS hand*** (repent
and believe), and take also of the tree of life (the Lord Jesus Christ),
and eat (His words), and live for ever (in Him):

"Lest HE put forth HIS hand."

You see, we are more than "total depravity", we are beings of belief,
and we can believe. Any man can choose to believe, regardless, or
rather, despite the knowledge of good and evil.

Belief got us into the hell hole of our own depravity, belief can get us
out. The grace of God, Praise the Lord! Look, you see it in the verse
above, God gave us the chance, left the door open, in spite of what we are.





Mike

Let me illustrate what I mean. The ancient Greeks "sincerely loved"
and "fervently worshiped" God. On any given day you could find
several "worship services" in process. We know that these religious
feasts were nothing less than drunken orgies, but they were done in
the name of Baccus, one of the Greek Gods. If we would have
rebuked the "worshipers" for their drunken immoral behavior because
in their heart of hearts they knew better, they would not have thanked
us. They would have been furious. They knew that the one true living
God hated such behavior. However, they did not care and did everything
they could to forget that fact. They would hate us for reminding them of
what they knew in their conscience. They would have raised their wine
goblets and shouted, "Away with your God, Baccus is God! Baccus is God!"

--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that you can play God."

[Dr. Who]

God entered that "consequence" and said, "Repent" (rethink) and believe in
Him (the red pill). And if you choose to do so as a free-will creature, He
will remove you from that consequence in His great love, grace, and mercy.

Repent means to do a 180 and go the opposite way.

I do not recall where any Gentile had to repent before he received Salvation.
In large part because they aren't very aware of what all was wrong. And in RL
it most often occurs after salvation when God writes his law upon their
hearts.

Otherwise repentance would be a work of man, if it had to be done before a
person was saved.

The Jew, at the time of Christ were already under a covenant.

[Michael McLean]

And a snip back at cha, Buddy.




Mike
--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that you can play God."

[Michael McLean]

The Doctrine of "Total Depravity"
by John Reisinger
Let me repeat that the word "total" in "total depravity" does not mean
man is as wicked as he can be. It means sin has affected every part of
our being in such a way that our autobiography reads, "I know that in
me, that is, in no single part of me, dwells no good thing" (Rom 7:18).

It is speaking about his flesh, his physical being, his "BODY" of death,
not his spirit.

(kJV)
Rom 7:18  For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good
thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is
good I find not.

It means that the sinner's heart, which is the seat of his thinking,
feeling, and choosing, is "deceitful and incurably wicked" (Jer 17:9).

"Incurably"? So God can't cure?

(KJV)
Jer 17:9  The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately
wicked: who can know it?

Not the heart of the new creature.

2Co_5:17  Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old
things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

The Saviour has come and given that man a new heart. He is still
physically dying, but he has a new spirit.

The word total in "total depravity" means the same thing as putting a
drop of deadly poison into a glass a water. The entire glass is totally,
meaning every single particle of the water, poisoned and unfit to drink.
If you pour that glass of water into a gallon jug you will dilute the
intensity of the poison but you will still totally poison the entire
gallon of water. Pour the gallon into a barrel of water and you have
"Man is bad, but he is not that bad, but he really is bad."

Every sinner is. That is why he needs a Saviour. My problem with you,
is that you admit to being a sinner, but you walk as though you have no
blind side, as though sin is a mere triviality??

You promote yourself as a man of crystal clear vision and subsequent
doctrine.

The primary objection to everything I have said goes like this: "If the
sinner does not have the innate power or ability to repent and believe
then God cannot hold him responsible." In other words, man's ability is
always the measure of his responsibility. If God hold's the sinner
responsible to repent and believe when He knows the sinner is unable to
do so,

Which is not the case.

This is where you depart from the scriptures you claim to hold dear.

The Lord Jesus said, repent (rethink) and believe.

He did not say that because we couldn't, neither did John the Baptist,
for that matter.  The trouble with your religion is that you base your
life on good and evil.  That is not our base!  It was explained to you.

We are beings of belief, and we freely choose what we want.  Otherwise,
God may as well have created robots, and had a much easier time of it.

Every day you go about your day, ALL OF IT is determined by what you
decide to believe; it is not ALL ABOUT good and evil/depravity.

We get to decide what we believe.  Today you will listen to the news. Is
that good or evil you are doing that?  So what determines your life?

We are beings of belief; THAT IS OUR FOUNDATION, not beings of good and
evil knowledge.  So, we have a choice. Think of a child.  When it first
begins to see the world, it does not think this is evil and this is
good.  He/she is wide-eyed and a wide-open vessel of belief.

The problem is, if you get this far without slamming the door, as usual,
sin is a big problem.  We were all born sinners, as God planned it would
be (including Adam and Eve).  But what is sin?

Sin is not loving God with all your heart, soul, and mind.  But we all
get the chance to love God in this life by what we choose to freely
believe.  If good and evil, us being evil, determined what we are, no
one would be saved, because total depravity would be all we are and
would ever be!  However, we are more than that, we are made in the image
of God, beings of belief, like Him.

Believe it or not.

then God becomes unjust and grossly unfair. This objection
totally misunderstands both sin and responsibility. It also denies the
Is a sinner able to perfectly obey the Ten Commandments?

No, never. Because the old man does not love God with all heart, soul,
and mind.

So, Jesus came, wept for us, that we might repent and believe Him.

Freely, as beings of belief.

All will
answer, "Absolutely not." Does God hold sinner's responsible for
perfectly obeying the Ten Commandments and punishing them for breaking
those commandments? The answer will be, with a bit of hesitation and
without the "absolutely," will be the exact opposite, or, "Yes." So then
God can, and does, hold men responsible for doing something they are
totally unable to do! The objection is exploded.

We are given a choice to give our lives to Him so that HE CAN raise them
up to love Him. Everyone has that free choice.

Preprogrammed robots is not what we are; we are beings of belief, like
our Creator, able to freely choose what to believe. We are a greater
existence than mere good and evil and the knowledge thereof.

So...pause...

Total depravity is not based on good and evil, it is based on whether or
not you love God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and God in His
grace and mercy gives a man a chance for Him, the Lord, to turn that around.

It is that simple.





Mike
--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that you could play God."

[Dr. Who]

Post by Michael McLean

The Doctrine of "Total Depravity"
by John Reisinger
Let me repeat that the word "total" in "total depravity" does not mean
man is as wicked as he can be. It means sin has affected every part of
our being in such a way that our autobiography reads, "I know that in
me, that is, in no single part of me, dwells no good thing" (Rom 7:18).

It is speaking about his flesh, his physical being, his "BODY" of death,
not his spirit.
(kJV)
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good
thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is
good I find not.

It means that the sinner's heart, which is the seat of his thinking,
feeling, and choosing, is "deceitful and incurably wicked" (Jer 17:9).

"Incurably"? So God can't cure?
(KJV)
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately
wicked: who can know it?
Not the heart of the new creature.
2Co_5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old
things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
The Saviour has come and given that man a new heart. He is still
physically dying, but he has a new spirit.

The word total in "total depravity" means the same thing as putting a
drop of deadly poison into a glass a water. The entire glass is totally,
meaning every single particle of the water, poisoned and unfit to drink.
If you pour that glass of water into a gallon jug you will dilute the
intensity of the poison but you will still totally poison the entire
gallon of water. Pour the gallon into a barrel of water and you have
"Man is bad, but he is not that bad, but he really is bad."

Every sinner is. That is why he needs a Saviour. My problem with you,
is that you admit to being a sinner, but you walk as though you have no
blind side, as though sin is a mere triviality??
You promote yourself as a man of crystal clear vision and subsequent
doctrine.

The primary objection to everything I have said goes like this: "If the
sinner does not have the innate power or ability to repent and believe
then God cannot hold him responsible." In other words, man's ability is
always the measure of his responsibility. If God hold's the sinner
responsible to repent and believe when He knows the sinner is unable to
do so,

Which is not the case.
This is where you depart from the scriptures you claim to hold dear.
The Lord Jesus said, repent (rethink) and believe.

Rethinking is not repentance.

Post by Michael McLean
He did not say that because we couldn't, neither did John the Baptist,
for that matter. The trouble with your religion is that you base your
life on good and evil. That is not our base! It was explained to you.

John the Baptist preached repentance with a baptism to signify that the
children of God were correcting themselves per the Law.

Post by Michael McLean
We are beings of belief, and we freely choose what we want.Otherwise,
God may as well have created robots, and had a much easier time of it.

And thus a person might not be saved because of their hardened hearts and
refusal to accept Christ as Saviour.

¥ou lack understanding and knowledge of the things of God is not only to
your detriment, but to the understanding of others.

You sin daily, yet deny it, so unconfessed sin builds its wall around you.

Post by Michael McLean
Every day you go about your day, ALL OF IT is determined by what you
decide to believe; it is not ALL ABOUT good and evil/depravity.
We get to decide what we believe. Today you will listen to the news. Is
that good or evil you are doing that? So what determines your life?
We are beings of belief; THAT IS OUR FOUNDATION, not beings of good and
evil knowledge. So, we have a choice. Think of a child.When it first
begins to see the world, it does not think this is evil and this is
good. He/she is wide-eyed and a wide-open vessel of belief.
The problem is, if you get this far without slamming the door, as usual,
sin is a big problem. We were all born sinners, as God planned it would
be (including Adam and Eve). But what is sin?
Sin is not loving God with all your heart, soul, and mind.But we all
get the chance to love God in this life by what we choose to freely
believe. If good and evil, us being evil, determined what we are, no
one would be saved, because total depravity would be all we are and
would ever be! However, we are more than that, we are made in the image
of God, beings of belief, like Him.
Believe it or not.

then God becomes unjust and grossly unfair. This objection
totally misunderstands both sin and responsibility. It also denies the
Is a sinner able to perfectly obey the Ten Commandments?

No, never. Because the old man does not love God with all heart, soul,
and mind.
So, Jesus came, wept for us, that we might repent and believe Him.
Freely, as beings of belief.

All will
answer, "Absolutely not." Does God hold sinner's responsible for
perfectly obeying the Ten Commandments and punishing them for breaking
those commandments? The answer will be, with a bit of hesitation and
without the "absolutely," will be the exact opposite, or, "Yes." So then
God can, and does, hold men responsible for doing something they are
totally unable to do! The objection is exploded.

We are given a choice to give our lives to Him so that HE CAN raise them
up to love Him. Everyone has that free choice.
Preprogrammed robots is not what we are; we are beings of belief, like
our Creator, able to freely choose what to believe. We are a greater
existence than mere good and evil and the knowledge thereof.
So...pause...
Total depravity is not based on good and evil, it is based on whether or
not you love God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and God in His
grace and mercy gives a man a chance for Him, the Lord, to turn that around.
It is that simple.
Mike

[Michael McLean]

Post by Dr. Who

Post by Michael McLean

The Doctrine of "Total Depravity"
by John Reisinger
Let me repeat that the word "total" in "total depravity" does not mean
man is as wicked as he can be. It means sin has affected every part of
our being in such a way that our autobiography reads, "I know that in
me, that is, in no single part of me, dwells no good thing" (Rom 7:18).

It is speaking about his flesh, his physical being, his "BODY" of death,
not his spirit.
(kJV)
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good
thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is
good I find not.

It means that the sinner's heart, which is the seat of his thinking,
feeling, and choosing, is "deceitful and incurably wicked" (Jer 17:9).

"Incurably"? So God can't cure?
(KJV)
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately
wicked: who can know it?
Not the heart of the new creature.
2Co_5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old
things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
The Saviour has come and given that man a new heart. He is still
physically dying, but he has a new spirit.

The word total in "total depravity" means the same thing as putting a
drop of deadly poison into a glass a water. The entire glass is totally,
meaning every single particle of the water, poisoned and unfit to drink.
If you pour that glass of water into a gallon jug you will dilute the
intensity of the poison but you will still totally poison the entire
gallon of water. Pour the gallon into a barrel of water and you have
"Man is bad, but he is not that bad, but he really is bad."

Every sinner is. That is why he needs a Saviour. My problem with you,
is that you admit to being a sinner, but you walk as though you have no
blind side, as though sin is a mere triviality??
You promote yourself as a man of crystal clear vision and subsequent
doctrine.

The primary objection to everything I have said goes like this: "If the
sinner does not have the innate power or ability to repent and believe
then God cannot hold him responsible." In other words, man's ability is
always the measure of his responsibility. If God hold's the sinner
responsible to repent and believe when He knows the sinner is unable to
do so,

Which is not the case.
This is where you depart from the scriptures you claim to hold dear.
The Lord Jesus said, repent (rethink) and believe.

Rethinking is not repentance.

Post by Michael McLean
He did not say that because we couldn't, neither did John the Baptist,
for that matter. The trouble with your religion is that you base your
life on good and evil. That is not our base! It was explained to you.

John the Baptist preached repentance with a baptism to signify that the
children of God were correcting themselves per the Law.

Post by Michael McLean
We are beings of belief, and we freely choose what we want.Otherwise,
God may as well have created robots, and had a much easier time of it.

And thus a person might not be saved because of their hardened hearts and
refusal to accept Christ as Saviour.
¥ou lack understanding and knowledge of the things of God is not only to
your detriment, but to the understanding of others.
You sin daily, yet deny it, so unconfessed sin builds its wall around you.

Post by Michael McLean
Every day you go about your day, ALL OF IT is determined by what you
decide to believe; it is not ALL ABOUT good and evil/depravity.
We get to decide what we believe. Today you will listen to the news. Is
that good or evil you are doing that? So what determines your life?
We are beings of belief; THAT IS OUR FOUNDATION, not beings of good and
evil knowledge. So, we have a choice. Think of a child.When it first
begins to see the world, it does not think this is evil and this is
good. He/she is wide-eyed and a wide-open vessel of belief.
The problem is, if you get this far without slamming the door, as usual,
sin is a big problem. We were all born sinners, as God planned it would
be (including Adam and Eve). But what is sin?
Sin is not loving God with all your heart, soul, and mind.But we all
get the chance to love God in this life by what we choose to freely
believe. If good and evil, us being evil, determined what we are, no
one would be saved, because total depravity would be all we are and
would ever be! However, we are more than that, we are made in the image
of God, beings of belief, like Him.
Believe it or not.

then God becomes unjust and grossly unfair. This objection
totally misunderstands both sin and responsibility. It also denies the
Is a sinner able to perfectly obey the Ten Commandments?

No, never. Because the old man does not love God with all heart, soul,
and mind.
So, Jesus came, wept for us, that we might repent and believe Him.
Freely, as beings of belief.

All will
answer, "Absolutely not." Does God hold sinner's responsible for
perfectly obeying the Ten Commandments and punishing them for breaking
those commandments? The answer will be, with a bit of hesitation and
without the "absolutely," will be the exact opposite, or, "Yes." So then
God can, and does, hold men responsible for doing something they are
totally unable to do! The objection is exploded.

We are given a choice to give our lives to Him so that HE CAN raise them
up to love Him. Everyone has that free choice.
Preprogrammed robots is not what we are; we are beings of belief, like
our Creator, able to freely choose what to believe. We are a greater
existence than mere good and evil and the knowledge thereof.
So...pause...
Total depravity is not based on good and evil, it is based on whether or
not you love God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and God in His
grace and mercy gives a man a chance for Him, the Lord, to turn that around.
It is that simple.

You have your way, I don't know why you are so dissatisfied. :-).

Not really. :-).

All abuse, all accusation, and all condemnation WILL be paid for,
Robert. You are not the righteousness of God.

Sorry, Bubba Bible.





Mike
--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that you could play God."

[Michael McLean]

The Doctrine of "Total Depravity"
by John Reisinger
What we will see is that the reason sinners can neither obey the
commandments or repent and believe the gospel is the power of their
sinful nature to totally control the sinner's whole being. The only
question is this: "Who is totally responsible for man's sinful nature?"
Did man acquire his sinful nature by an act of his free will or did God
force him to sin against his will? If man is totally responsible for his
sin, then he is also totally responsible for the effects of that sin,
and the awful effect is the sinner's total depravity and total inability
to change that sinful nature.
I can say without hesitation that the sinner is "totally free to do
exactly as he pleases." However, that kind of freedom is the sinner's
greatest problem. An unregenerate sinner, because he is totally
controlled by a sinful nature, will always, every single time, freely,
or deliberately, choose to please himself. We always do, or choose to
do, things which are consistent with what we ARE. If we are sinners by
nature

We are believers by nature. You can believe in God or not believe in
God. When I choose to believe in God, of course, I selfishly chose.

That is the choice we get.

Luk_13:34  O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and
stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered
thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings,
and ye would not!

And if I took the Lord at His offer, am I not selfishly thinking of my
own need and His protection?

You don't know the manner of the grace and love of God to take selfish
beings and gather them to Himself, knowing that they seek their own
selfish wants, first and foremost, and not Him. Like the thief on the
cross, Luke 23:42  And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember ME when thou
comest into thy kingdom. Me, me, me.

Yet, He is able to "do something" in the heart of a man that gazes upon
Him, and cause him to fall in love with Him. Love is such a miraculous
thing, to suddenly fall upon a man.

Job 42:5  I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine
eye seeth thee.
Job 42:6  Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

That is what He did to Job. He caused Job to fall in love with Him.

and choice then every choice will be effected by our sinful
nature. Adam is the only man that ever had a true "free" will that was
free from sin. Adam is also the only person who ever became a sinner by
sinning, or by an act of will. You and I sin because we are born
sinners, we did not become a sinner the first time we consciously
disobeyed.

And what is that sin? You were told.

Our first act of sin did not produce our sinful nature. The
sinful nature inherited from Adam produced the sinful act.

And what is that sin?

What is the nature of the inherited sinful nature?





Mike
--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that you could play God."

[Dr. Who]

The Doctrine of "Total Depravity"
by John Reisinger
What we will see is that the reason sinners can neither obey the
commandments or repent and believe the gospel is the power of their
sinful nature to totally control the sinner's whole being. The only
question is this: "Who is totally responsible for man's sinful nature?"
Did man acquire his sinful nature by an act of his free will or did God
force him to sin against his will? If man is totally responsible for his
sin, then he is also totally responsible for the effects of that sin,
and the awful effect is the sinner's total depravity and total inability
to change that sinful nature.
I can say without hesitation that the sinner is "totally free to do
exactly as he pleases." However, that kind of freedom is the sinner's
greatest problem. An unregenerate sinner, because he is totally
controlled by a sinful nature, will always, every single time, freely,
or deliberately, choose to please himself. We always do, or choose to
do, things which are consistent with what we ARE. If we are sinners by
nature

We are believers by nature. You can believe in God or not believe in
God. When I choose to believe in God, of course, I selfishly chose.

That was and is the problem. You should have chosen HIS way, and not via the
vain imaginations of your mind. The written for of God is here for a purpose.

That is the choice we get.
Luk_13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and
stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered
thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings,
and ye would not!
And if I took the Lord at His offer, am I not selfishly thinking of my
own need and His protection?
You don't know the manner of the grace and love of God to take selfish
beings and gather them to Himself, knowing that they seek their own
selfish wants, first and foremost, and not Him. Like the thief on the
cross, Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember ME when thou
comest into thy kingdom. Me, me, me.
Yet, He is able to "do something" in the heart of a man that gazes upon
Him, and cause him to fall in love with Him. Love is such a miraculous
thing, to suddenly fall upon a man.
Job 42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine
eye seeth thee.
Job 42:6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.
That is what He did to Job. He caused Job to fall in love with Him.

and choice then every choice will be effected by our sinful
nature. Adam is the only man that ever had a true "free" will that was
free from sin. Adam is also the only person who ever became a sinner by
sinning, or by an act of will. You and I sin because we are born
sinners, we did not become a sinner the first time we consciously
disobeyed.

And what is that sin? You were told.

Our first act of sin did not produce our sinful nature. The
sinful nature inherited from Adam produced the sinful act.

And what is that sin?
What is the nature of the inherited sinful nature?
Mike

[Michael McLean]

Post by Dr. Who

The Doctrine of "Total Depravity"
by John Reisinger
What we will see is that the reason sinners can neither obey the
commandments or repent and believe the gospel is the power of their
sinful nature to totally control the sinner's whole being. The only
question is this: "Who is totally responsible for man's sinful nature?"
Did man acquire his sinful nature by an act of his free will or did God
force him to sin against his will? If man is totally responsible for his
sin, then he is also totally responsible for the effects of that sin,
and the awful effect is the sinner's total depravity and total inability
to change that sinful nature.
I can say without hesitation that the sinner is "totally free to do
exactly as he pleases." However, that kind of freedom is the sinner's
greatest problem. An unregenerate sinner, because he is totally
controlled by a sinful nature, will always, every single time, freely,
or deliberately, choose to please himself. We always do, or choose to
do, things which are consistent with what we ARE. If we are sinners by
nature

We are believers by nature. You can believe in God or not believe in
God. When I choose to believe in God, of course, I selfishly chose.

Robert always seeking to bring down the truth with his little cut in and

Post by Dr. Who
That was and is the problem.

No, Robert, that is your big, big, big, huge, massive problem! You
think you are good to believe there is a God.

NO, YOU ARE NOT!!!

That is the death in and of Christendom, right there.

There is no good in you. It is all selfishness, and you seek glory for
yourself. An abomination, just like JW James.

You were told, all good, all virtue, all purity, all honour, and on and
on, is His, Usurper.

And you swept away the explanation below like it was nothing, and that
is what the truth really means to you. Thee thou Robert is first.

"That was and is the problem."






Mike






You should have chosen HIS way, and not via the

Post by Dr. Who
vain imaginations of your mind. The written for of God is here for a purpose.

That is the choice we get.
Luk_13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and
stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered
thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings,
and ye would not!
And if I took the Lord at His offer, am I not selfishly thinking of my
own need and His protection?
You don't know the manner of the grace and love of God to take selfish
beings and gather them to Himself, knowing that they seek their own
selfish wants, first and foremost, and not Him. Like the thief on the
cross, Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember ME when thou
comest into thy kingdom. Me, me, me.
Yet, He is able to "do something" in the heart of a man that gazes upon
Him, and cause him to fall in love with Him. Love is such a miraculous
thing, to suddenly fall upon a man.
Job 42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine
eye seeth thee.
Job 42:6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.
That is what He did to Job. He caused Job to fall in love with Him.

and choice then every choice will be effected by our sinful
nature. Adam is the only man that ever had a true "free" will that was
free from sin. Adam is also the only person who ever became a sinner by
sinning, or by an act of will. You and I sin because we are born
sinners, we did not become a sinner the first time we consciously
disobeyed.

And what is that sin? You were told.

Our first act of sin did not produce our sinful nature. The
sinful nature inherited from Adam produced the sinful act.

And what is that sin?
What is the nature of the inherited sinful nature?
Mike

--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that you could play God."