Why Are They Called Gospels In The First Place?

[Jack Sovalot]

On Sun, 05 Mar 2023 02:56:01 +0000, Mitchell Holman

On Sat, 4 Mar 2023 10:47:32 -0800 (PST), Slaveholders Can Tell Me

Was Not This Supposed To Be A Corpus of Testimonials about

Jesus'

Messiahship by witnesses?

About how Jesus of Nazareth became Jesus the Christ(Messiah)?
In the Court of Law, what we expect from a witness is

credibility

not inspiration.
Good point. The gospels are almost entirely bullshit.

Indeed.
Who were the women at the tomb?
Matthew: Mary Magdalene and the other Mary (28:1)
Mark: Mary Magdalene, the mother of James, and Salome (16:1)
Luke: Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and
other women (24:10)
John: Mary Magdalene (20:1)
What was their purpose?
Matthew: to see the tomb (28:1)
Mark: had already seen the tomb (15:47), brought spices (16:1)
Luke: had already seen the tomb (23:55), brought spices (24:1)
John: the body had already been spiced before they arrived
(19:39,40)
Was the tomb open when they arrived?
Matthew: No (28:2)
Mark: Yes (16:4)
Luke: Yes (24:2)
John: Yes (20:1)
Who was at the tomb when they arrived?
Matthew: One angel (28:2-7)
Mark: One young man (16:5)
Luke: Two men (24:4)
John: Two angels (20:12)
Where were these messengers situated?
Matthew: Angel sitting on the stone (28:2)
Mark: Young man sitting inside, on the right (16:5)
Luke: Two men standing inside (24:4)
John: Two angels sitting on each end of the bed (20:12)
Did the women tell what happened?
Matthew: Yes (28:8)
Mark: No. "Neither said they any thing to any man." (16:8)
Luke: Yes. "And they returned from the tomb and told all
these things to the eleven, and to all the rest." (24:9,22-24)
John: Yes (20:18)
When Mary returned from the tomb, did she know Jesus had
been resurrected?
Matthew: Yes (28:7-8)
Mark: Yes (16:10,11)
Luke: Yes (24:6-9,23)
John: No (20:2)
When did Mary first see Jesus?
Matthew: Before she returned to the disciples (28:9)
Mark: Before she returned to the disciples (16:9,10)
John: After she returned to the disciples (20:2,14)
Could Jesus be touched after the resurrection?
Matthew: Yes (28:9)
John: No (20:17), Yes (20:27)
After the women, to whom did Jesus first appear?
Matthew: Eleven disciples (28:16)
Mark: Two disciples in the country, later to eleven (16:12,14)
Luke: Two disciples in Emmaus, later to eleven (24:13,36)
John: Ten disciples (Judas and Thomas were absent) (20:19, 24)
Paul: First to Cephas (Peter), then to the twelve. (Twelve?
Judas was dead). (I Corinthians 15:5)
Where did Jesus first appear to the disciples?
Matthew: On a mountain in Galilee (60-100 miles away)
(28:16-17)
Mark: Totwo in the country, to eleven "as they sat at
meat" (16:12,14)
Luke: In Emmaus (about seven miles away) at evening, to
the rest in a room in Jerusalem later that night. (24:31,36)
John: In a room, at evening (20:19)
Did the disciples believe the two men?
Mark: No (16:13)
Luke: Yes (24:34--it is the group speaking here, not the two)
What happened at the appearance?
Matthew: Disciples worshipped, some doubted, "Go preach."

(28:17-20)

Mark: Jesus reprimanded them, said "Go preach" (16:14-19)
Luke: Christ incognito, vanishing act, materialized out of thin
air, reprimand, supper (24:13-51)
John: Passed through solid door, disciples happy, Jesus blesses
them, no reprimand (21:19-23)
Did Jesus stay on earth for a while?
Mark: No (16:19) Compare 16:14 with John 20:19 to show that
this was all done on Sunday
Luke: No (24:50-52) It all happened on Sunday
John: Yes, at least eight days (20:26, 21:1-22)
Acts: Yes, at least forty days (1:3)
Where did the ascension take place?
Matthew: No ascension. Book ends on mountain in Galilee
Mark: In or near Jerusalem, after supper (16:19)
Luke: In Bethany, very close to Jerusalem, after supper (24:50-51)
John: No ascension
Paul: No ascension
Acts: Ascended from Mount of Olives (1:9-12)

Thanks so much, Mitchell, I've long admired your collections and
appreciated your contributions to the group.

Yes, the inconsistencies in the post-resurrection accounts make it
clear there must have been dozens of such made up stories. What
actually must have happened was just that some (two? three?) of
Jesus's disciples thought they saw him alive after he died. That
happens repeatedly -- more people have seen Elvis than Jesus.

I read recently on Ehrman's blog that he's come to the conclusion
that Jesus's body was left on the cross to rot, as the Romans did
with most of their crucifixion victims. But whether or not that's so,
there was no tomb, as several pieces of evidence make apparent. That
was just invented later to add plausibility.

[Dr. Who]

Post by Jack Sovalot
On Sun, 05 Mar 2023 02:56:01 +0000, Mitchell Holman

On Sat, 4 Mar 2023 10:47:32 -0800 (PST), Slaveholders Can Tell Me

Was Not This Supposed To Be A Corpus of Testimonials about

Jesus'

Messiahship by witnesses?

About how Jesus of Nazareth became Jesus the Christ(Messiah)?
In the Court of Law, what we expect from a witness is

credibility

not inspiration.
Good point. The gospels are almost entirely bullshit.

Indeed.
Who were the women at the tomb?
Matthew: Mary Magdalene and the other Mary (28:1)
Mark: Mary Magdalene, the mother of James, and Salome (16:1)
Luke: Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and
other women (24:10)
John: Mary Magdalene (20:1)
What was their purpose?
Matthew: to see the tomb (28:1)
Mark: had already seen the tomb (15:47), brought spices (16:1)
Luke: had already seen the tomb (23:55), brought spices (24:1)
John: the body had already been spiced before they arrived
(19:39,40)
Was the tomb open when they arrived?
Matthew: No (28:2)
Mark: Yes (16:4)
Luke: Yes (24:2)
John: Yes (20:1)
Who was at the tomb when they arrived?
Matthew: One angel (28:2-7)
Mark: One young man (16:5)
Luke: Two men (24:4)
John: Two angels (20:12)
Where were these messengers situated?
Matthew: Angel sitting on the stone (28:2)
Mark: Young man sitting inside, on the right (16:5)
Luke: Two men standing inside (24:4)
John: Two angels sitting on each end of the bed (20:12)
Did the women tell what happened?
Matthew: Yes (28:8)
Mark: No. "Neither said they any thing to any man." (16:8)
Luke: Yes. "And they returned from the tomb and told all
these things to the eleven, and to all the rest." (24:9,22-24)
John: Yes (20:18)
When Mary returned from the tomb, did she know Jesus had
been resurrected?
Matthew: Yes (28:7-8)
Mark: Yes (16:10,11)
Luke: Yes (24:6-9,23)
John: No (20:2)
When did Mary first see Jesus?
Matthew: Before she returned to the disciples (28:9)
Mark: Before she returned to the disciples (16:9,10)
John: After she returned to the disciples (20:2,14)
Could Jesus be touched after the resurrection?
Matthew: Yes (28:9)
John: No (20:17), Yes (20:27)
After the women, to whom did Jesus first appear?
Matthew: Eleven disciples (28:16)
Mark: Two disciples in the country, later to eleven (16:12,14)
Luke: Two disciples in Emmaus, later to eleven (24:13,36)
John: Ten disciples (Judas and Thomas were absent) (20:19, 24)
Paul: First to Cephas (Peter), then to the twelve. (Twelve?
Judas was dead). (I Corinthians 15:5)
Where did Jesus first appear to the disciples?
Matthew: On a mountain in Galilee (60-100 miles away)
(28:16-17)
Mark: Totwo in the country, to eleven "as they sat at
meat" (16:12,14)
Luke: In Emmaus (about seven miles away) at evening, to
the rest in a room in Jerusalem later that night. (24:31,36)
John: In a room, at evening (20:19)
Did the disciples believe the two men?
Mark: No (16:13)
Luke: Yes (24:34--it is the group speaking here, not the two)
What happened at the appearance?
Matthew: Disciples worshipped, some doubted, "Go preach."

(28:17-20)

Mark: Jesus reprimanded them, said "Go preach" (16:14-19)
Luke: Christ incognito, vanishing act, materialized out of thin
air, reprimand, supper (24:13-51)
John: Passed through solid door, disciples happy, Jesus blesses
them, no reprimand (21:19-23)
Did Jesus stay on earth for a while?
Mark: No (16:19) Compare 16:14 with John 20:19 to show that
this was all done on Sunday
Luke: No (24:50-52) It all happened on Sunday
John: Yes, at least eight days (20:26, 21:1-22)
Acts: Yes, at least forty days (1:3)
Where did the ascension take place?
Matthew: No ascension. Book ends on mountain in Galilee
Mark: In or near Jerusalem, after supper (16:19)
Luke: In Bethany, very close to Jerusalem, after supper (24:50-51)
John: No ascension
Paul: No ascension
Acts: Ascended from Mount of Olives (1:9-12)

Thanks so much, Mitchell, I've long admired your collections and
appreciated your contributions to the group.

If you were to use his info, and base your understanding on what he said, it
would come back to haunt you because you never verified it.

Yes, some of the scripture he quoted was correct but not when taken in
context, and especially no when one knows not the lay of the land and things
like what a sabbath days journey is.

People on an agenda configure their thoughts in such a way as to bring a
collection of partial truths to bolster their argument, like a defense lawyer
presents partial facts to get their defendant who murdered a friend declared
not guilty, when they knew all along he was totally guilty of the crime. All
they have to do is so seeds of doubt so as to confuse the unknowledgeable.

In Mitchell's case he may very well not know or have seen all the facts
surrounding what he presented.

In his last package Paul the apostle was known as Saul a persecuted of those
who followed Christ. So why would he be there at the ascension? The Mt of
Olives was at Bethany. The four Gospels were written by three Apostles and
Luke. They were not parroted words.

Jesus after resurrection went to heaven and returned the same day, and stayed
on earth for forty days. I could go on an on, but you all have a bible that
you can read for yourself.

But the bottom line is, Verify, Verify, Verify. Try to read without being
agenda bound and look for the truth of the matter no matter where it falls,
and then triple check to verify it.

Do not let an agenda blind or deafen you.

Post by Jack Sovalot
Yes, the inconsistencies in the post-resurrection accounts make it
clear there must have been dozens of such made up stories. What
actually must have happened was just that some (two? three?) of
Jesus's disciples thought they saw him alive after he died. That
happens repeatedly -- more people have seen Elvis than Jesus.
I read recently on Ehrman's blog that he's come to the conclusion
that Jesus's body was left on the cross to rot, as the Romans did
with most of their crucifixion victims. But whether or not that's so,
there was no tomb, as several pieces of evidence make apparent. That
was just invented later to add plausibility.

[Jack Sovalot]

Post by Dr. Who
If you were to use his info, and base your
understanding on what he said, it would
come back to haunt you because you
never verified it.
Yes, some of the scripture he quoted was
correct but not when taken in context, and
especially no when one knows not the lay

That's irrelevant. His point was spot on. The
resurrection accounts contradict each other.

Post by Dr. Who
of the land and things like what a sabbath
days journey is.

I'm impressed you know what a sabbath
day's journey is, Robert. You and I are
probably the only ones here who do.

Post by Dr. Who
People on an agenda configure their
thoughts in such a way as to bring a
collection of partial truths to bolster their
argument, like a defense lawyer presents
partial facts to get their defendant who
murdered a friend declared not guilty, when
they knew all along he was totally guilty of
the crime. All they have to do is so seed
of doubt so as to confuse the
unknowledgeable.
In Mitchell's case he may very well not
know or have seen all the facts
surrounding what he presented.

Again, that's irrelevant to his point.

Post by Dr. Who
In his last package Paul the apostle was
known as Saul a persecuted of those who
followed Christ. So why would he be there
at the ascension? The Mt of Olives was at

He didn't say Paul was there at the
ascension. Only that there was no ascension
according to Paul.

Post by Dr. Who
Bethany. The four Gospels were written by
three Apostles and Luke. They were not
parroted words.

1. They're all parroted, paraphrased, or made
up by the author.

2. The authors weren't apostles. The gospels
were all written anonymously. The author
names weren't assigned to them until near
the end of the second century.

Post by Dr. Who
Jesus after resurrection went to heaven
and returned the same day, and stayed on
earth for forty days.

LOL. Yes, of course you have to say that
because you're a fundy. But the scribe(s)
who omitted the ascension phrase from
Luke 24:51 (some manuscripts lack it) knew
better. They deleted it because it
embarrassed them.

Post by Dr. Who
I could go on an on,
but you all have a bible that you can read
for yourself.
But the bottom line is, Verify, Verify, Verify.
Try to read without being agenda bound
and look for the truth of the matter no
matter where it falls, and then triple check
to verify it.
Do not let an agenda blind or deafen you.

If we have an agenda, it's to point out that
the Bible isn't the infallible word of any god.

Thank you, Robert, I always appreciate your
responses and look forward to your
informative input.

[Dr. Who]

Post by Jack Sovalot

Post by Dr. Who
If you were to use his info, and base your
understanding on what he said, it would
come back to haunt you because you
never verified it.
Yes, some of the scripture he quoted was
correct but not when taken in context, and
especially no when one knows not the lay

That's irrelevant. His point was spot on. The
resurrection accounts contradict each other.

Actually they do not. There is a host of things his list missed besides the
points I made.

You have a choice to believe what you will, by this statement and in concert
with the others you have made it appears you have chosen what your path and
are willing to dwell in eternal death. There is only one way to heaven and
eternal life, just one. I will trouble you no further.

Post by Jack Sovalot

Post by Dr. Who
of the land and things like what a sabbath
days journey is.

I'm impressed you know what a sabbath
day's journey is, Robert. You and I are
probably the only ones here who do.

Post by Dr. Who
People on an agenda configure their
thoughts in such a way as to bring a
collection of partial truths to bolster their
argument, like a defense lawyer presents
partial facts to get their defendant who
murdered a friend declared not guilty, when
they knew all along he was totally guilty of
the crime. All they have to do is so seed
of doubt so as to confuse the
unknowledgeable.
In Mitchell's case he may very well not
know or have seen all the facts
surrounding what he presented.

Again, that's irrelevant to his point.

Post by Dr. Who
In his last package Paul the apostle was
known as Saul a persecuted of those who
followed Christ. So why would he be there
at the ascension? The Mt of Olives was at

He didn't say Paul was there at the
ascension. Only that there was no ascension
according to Paul.

Post by Dr. Who
Bethany. The four Gospels were written by
three Apostles and Luke. They were not
parroted words.

1. They're all parroted, paraphrased, or made
up by the author.
2. The authors weren't apostles. The gospels
were all written anonymously. The author
names weren't assigned to them until near
the end of the second century.

We have already discussed that, and I showed you the truth of the matter.

Post by Jack Sovalot

Post by Dr. Who
Jesus after resurrection went to heaven
and returned the same day, and stayed on
earth for forty days.

LOL. Yes, of course you have to say that
because you're a fundy. But the scribe(s)
who omitted the ascension phrase from
Luke 24:51 (some manuscripts lack it) knew
better. They deleted it because it
embarrassed them.

No, I did not have to say anything like that. Fact is that this point is not
made by most any current teacher, nor stressed by any. It was revealed to me,
and so I shared it, and not only the point of it and why, but the amount of
earth time that he spent in heaven before he returned.

I have previously made the point to others and all I heard was crickets in
these NG's. I also am not a fundy, by anyones definition.

Post by Jack Sovalot

Post by Dr. Who
I could go on an on,
but you all have a bible that you can read
for yourself.
But the bottom line is, Verify, Verify, Verify.
Try to read without being agenda bound
and look for the truth of the matter no
matter where it falls, and then triple check
to verify it.
Do not let an agenda blind or deafen you.

If we have an agenda, it's to point out that
the Bible isn't the infallible word of any god.
Thank you, Robert, I always appreciate your
responses and look forward to your
informative input.

Sad to say I won't be continuing in this as much as I would like to. I have
no ill will towards you, and the conversations have been interesting to say
the least. But why feed a person something that is repellent to them, which
they abhor? If they hate veggies you have to let them be until they grow and
their body cries out for it, then it is that they will eat them, but not just
eat them, but take delight in them.

And so it is.

[Jack Sovalot]

Post by Dr. Who

Post by Jack Sovalot

Post by Dr. Who
If you were to use his info, and base your
understanding on what he said, it would
come back to haunt you because you
never verified it.
Yes, some of the scripture he quoted was
correct but not when taken in context, and
especially no when one knows not the lay

That's irrelevant. His point was spot on. The
resurrection accounts contradict each other.

Actually they do not. There is a host of things his list missed besides the
points I made.
You have a choice to believe what you will, by this statement and in concert
with the others you have made it appears you have chosen what your path and
are willing to dwell in eternal death. There is only one way to heaven and
eternal life, just one. I will trouble you no further.

Post by Jack Sovalot

Post by Dr. Who
of the land and things like what a sabbath
days journey is.

I'm impressed you know what a sabbath
day's journey is, Robert. You and I are
probably the only ones here who do.

Post by Dr. Who
People on an agenda configure their
thoughts in such a way as to bring a
collection of partial truths to bolster their
argument, like a defense lawyer presents
partial facts to get their defendant who
murdered a friend declared not guilty, when
they knew all along he was totally guilty of
the crime. All they have to do is so seed
of doubt so as to confuse the
unknowledgeable.
In Mitchell's case he may very well not
know or have seen all the facts
surrounding what he presented.

Again, that's irrelevant to his point.

Post by Dr. Who
In his last package Paul the apostle was
known as Saul a persecuted of those who
followed Christ. So why would he be there
at the ascension? The Mt of Olives was at

He didn't say Paul was there at the
ascension. Only that there was no ascension
according to Paul.

Post by Dr. Who
Bethany. The four Gospels were written by
three Apostles and Luke. They were not
parroted words.

1. They're all parroted, paraphrased, or made
up by the author.
2. The authors weren't apostles. The gospels
were all written anonymously. The author
names weren't assigned to them until near
the end of the second century.

We have already discussed that, and I showed you the truth of the matter.

Post by Jack Sovalot

Post by Dr. Who
Jesus after resurrection went to heaven
and returned the same day, and stayed on
earth for forty days.

LOL. Yes, of course you have to say that
because you're a fundy. But the scribe(s)
who omitted the ascension phrase from
Luke 24:51 (some manuscripts lack it) knew
better. They deleted it because it
embarrassed them.

No, I did not have to say anything like that. Fact is that this point is not
made by most any current teacher, nor stressed by any. It was

revealed to me,

Post by Dr. Who
and so I shared it, and not only the point of it and why, but the amount of
earth time that he spent in heaven before he returned.
I have previously made the point to others and all I heard was

crickets in

Post by Dr. Who
these NG's. I also am not a fundy, by anyones definition.

In that case I apologize for thinking you were a fundy. Of course, I
didn't mean anything derogatory by it, only that you believe the
Bible is noncontradictory, infallible, and God's word.

Now this is interesting. You know how much time he spent in heaven
before returning. Please explain.

[Dr. Who]

Post by Dr. Who

Post by Dr. Who

Post by Jack Sovalot

Post by Dr. Who
If you were to use his info, and base your
understanding on what he said, it would
come back to haunt you because you
never verified it.
Yes, some of the scripture he quoted was
correct but not when taken in context, and
especially no when one knows not the lay

That's irrelevant. His point was spot on. The
resurrection accounts contradict each other.

Actually they do not. There is a host of things his list missed

besides the

Post by Dr. Who
points I made.
You have a choice to believe what you will, by this statement and

in concert

Post by Dr. Who
with the others you have made it appears you have chosen what your

path and

Post by Dr. Who
are willing to dwell in eternal death. There is only one way to

heaven and

Post by Dr. Who
eternal life, just one. I will trouble you no further.

Post by Jack Sovalot

Post by Dr. Who
of the land and things like what a sabbath
days journey is.

I'm impressed you know what a sabbath
day's journey is, Robert. You and I are
probably the only ones here who do.

Post by Dr. Who
People on an agenda configure their
thoughts in such a way as to bring a
collection of partial truths to bolster their
argument, like a defense lawyer presents
partial facts to get their defendant who
murdered a friend declared not guilty, when
they knew all along he was totally guilty of
the crime. All they have to do is so seed
of doubt so as to confuse the
unknowledgeable.
In Mitchell's case he may very well not
know or have seen all the facts
surrounding what he presented.

Again, that's irrelevant to his point.

Post by Dr. Who
In his last package Paul the apostle was
known as Saul a persecuted of those who
followed Christ. So why would he be there
at the ascension? The Mt of Olives was at

He didn't say Paul was there at the
ascension. Only that there was no ascension
according to Paul.

Post by Dr. Who
Bethany. The four Gospels were written by
three Apostles and Luke. They were not
parroted words.

1. They're all parroted, paraphrased, or made
up by the author.
2. The authors weren't apostles. The gospels
were all written anonymously. The author
names weren't assigned to them until near
the end of the second century.

We have already discussed that, and I showed you the truth of the

matter.

Post by Dr. Who

Post by Jack Sovalot

Post by Dr. Who
Jesus after resurrection went to heaven
and returned the same day, and stayed on
earth for forty days.

LOL. Yes, of course you have to say that
because you're a fundy. But the scribe(s)
who omitted the ascension phrase from
Luke 24:51 (some manuscripts lack it) knew
better. They deleted it because it
embarrassed them.

No, I did not have to say anything like that. Fact is that this

point is not

Post by Dr. Who
made by most any current teacher, nor stressed by any. It was

revealed to me,

Post by Dr. Who
and so I shared it, and not only the point of it and why, but the

amount of

Post by Dr. Who
earth time that he spent in heaven before he returned.
I have previously made the point to others and all I heard was

crickets in

Post by Dr. Who
these NG's. I also am not a fundy, by anyones definition.

In that case I apologize for thinking you were a fundy. Of course, I
didn't mean anything derogatory by it, only that you believe the
Bible is noncontradictory, infallible, and God's word.
Now this is interesting. You know how much time he spent in heaven
before returning. Please explain.

Mans time, not eternal time. I calculated it from the approximate time he
left to when he was first seen by the two walking on the road.

[Jack Sovalot]

Post by Dr. Who

Post by Jack Sovalot

Post by Dr. Who
If you were to use his info, and base your
understanding on what he said, it would
come back to haunt you because you
never verified it.
Yes, some of the scripture he quoted was
correct but not when taken in context, and
especially no when one knows not the lay

That's irrelevant. His point was spot on. The
resurrection accounts contradict each other.

Actually they do not. There is a host of things his list missed besides the
points I made.
You have a choice to believe what you will, by this statement and in concert
with the others you have made it appears you have chosen what your path and
are willing to dwell in eternal death. There is only one way to heaven and
eternal life, just one. I will trouble you no further.

Post by Jack Sovalot

Post by Dr. Who
of the land and things like what a sabbath
days journey is.

I'm impressed you know what a sabbath
day's journey is, Robert. You and I are
probably the only ones here who do.

Post by Dr. Who
People on an agenda configure their
thoughts in such a way as to bring a
collection of partial truths to bolster their
argument, like a defense lawyer presents
partial facts to get their defendant who
murdered a friend declared not guilty, when
they knew all along he was totally guilty of
the crime. All they have to do is so seed
of doubt so as to confuse the
unknowledgeable.
In Mitchell's case he may very well not
know or have seen all the facts
surrounding what he presented.

Again, that's irrelevant to his point.

Post by Dr. Who
In his last package Paul the apostle was
known as Saul a persecuted of those who
followed Christ. So why would he be there
at the ascension? The Mt of Olives was at

He didn't say Paul was there at the
ascension. Only that there was no ascension
according to Paul.

Post by Dr. Who
Bethany. The four Gospels were written by
three Apostles and Luke. They were not
parroted words.

1. They're all parroted, paraphrased, or made
up by the author.
2. The authors weren't apostles. The gospels
were all written anonymously. The author
names weren't assigned to them until near
the end of the second century.

We have already discussed that, and I showed you the truth of the matter.

Post by Jack Sovalot

Post by Dr. Who
Jesus after resurrection went to heaven
and returned the same day, and stayed on
earth for forty days.

LOL. Yes, of course you have to say that
because you're a fundy. But the scribe(s)
who omitted the ascension phrase from
Luke 24:51 (some manuscripts lack it) knew
better. They deleted it because it
embarrassed them.

No, I did not have to say anything like that. Fact is that this point is not
made by most any current teacher, nor stressed by any. It was

revealed to me,

Post by Dr. Who
and so I shared it, and not only the point of it and why, but the amount of
earth time that he spent in heaven before he returned.
I have previously made the point to others and all I heard was

crickets in

Post by Dr. Who
these NG's. I also am not a fundy, by anyones definition.

Post by Jack Sovalot

Post by Dr. Who
I could go on an on,
but you all have a bible that you can read
for yourself.
But the bottom line is, Verify, Verify, Verify.
Try to read without being agenda bound
and look for the truth of the matter no
matter where it falls, and then triple check
to verify it.
Do not let an agenda blind or deafen you.

If we have an agenda, it's to point out that
the Bible isn't the infallible word of any god.
Thank you, Robert, I always appreciate your
responses and look forward to your
informative input.

Sad to say I won't be continuing in this as much as I would like to. I have
no ill will towards you, and the conversations have been

interesting to say

Post by Dr. Who
the least. But why feed a person something that is repellent to them, which
they abhor? If they hate veggies you have to let them be until they grow and
their body cries out for it, then it is that they will eat them, but not just
eat them, but take delight in them.
And so it is.

.

I love the Bible, Robert, mebbe as much as you do. It's hardly
"repellent" to me at all. In fact, I appreciate it more now than I
did when I was a fundy. Back then I'd read it hoping that my
nonexistent god would communicate something to me (how embarrassing
to admit). Now I study it because it's fascinating. Nothing else is
even remotely like it.

And your ability is unparalleled here. The only Usenet christer
capable of an argument. Also, you've taught me a lot and even
reversed my opinion on a couple of things. (e.g. Mark 1:41)

[Dr. Who]

Post by Dr. Who

Post by Dr. Who

Post by Jack Sovalot

Post by Dr. Who
If you were to use his info, and base your
understanding on what he said, it would
come back to haunt you because you
never verified it.
Yes, some of the scripture he quoted was
correct but not when taken in context, and
especially no when one knows not the lay

That's irrelevant. His point was spot on. The
resurrection accounts contradict each other.

Actually they do not. There is a host of things his list missed

besides the

Post by Dr. Who
points I made.
You have a choice to believe what you will, by this statement and

in concert

Post by Dr. Who
with the others you have made it appears you have chosen what your

path and

Post by Dr. Who
are willing to dwell in eternal death. There is only one way to

heaven and

Post by Dr. Who
eternal life, just one. I will trouble you no further.

Post by Jack Sovalot

Post by Dr. Who
of the land and things like what a sabbath
days journey is.

I'm impressed you know what a sabbath
day's journey is, Robert. You and I are
probably the only ones here who do.

Post by Dr. Who
People on an agenda configure their
thoughts in such a way as to bring a
collection of partial truths to bolster their
argument, like a defense lawyer presents
partial facts to get their defendant who
murdered a friend declared not guilty, when
they knew all along he was totally guilty of
the crime. All they have to do is so seed
of doubt so as to confuse the
unknowledgeable.
In Mitchell's case he may very well not
know or have seen all the facts
surrounding what he presented.

Again, that's irrelevant to his point.

Post by Dr. Who
In his last package Paul the apostle was
known as Saul a persecuted of those who
followed Christ. So why would he be there
at the ascension? The Mt of Olives was at

He didn't say Paul was there at the
ascension. Only that there was no ascension
according to Paul.

Post by Dr. Who
Bethany. The four Gospels were written by
three Apostles and Luke. They were not
parroted words.

1. They're all parroted, paraphrased, or made
up by the author.
2. The authors weren't apostles. The gospels
were all written anonymously. The author
names weren't assigned to them until near
the end of the second century.

We have already discussed that, and I showed you the truth of the

matter.

Post by Dr. Who

Post by Jack Sovalot

Post by Dr. Who
Jesus after resurrection went to heaven
and returned the same day, and stayed on
earth for forty days.

LOL. Yes, of course you have to say that
because you're a fundy. But the scribe(s)
who omitted the ascension phrase from
Luke 24:51 (some manuscripts lack it) knew
better. They deleted it because it
embarrassed them.

No, I did not have to say anything like that. Fact is that this

point is not

Post by Dr. Who
made by most any current teacher, nor stressed by any. It was

revealed to me,

Post by Dr. Who
and so I shared it, and not only the point of it and why, but the

amount of

Post by Dr. Who
earth time that he spent in heaven before he returned.
I have previously made the point to others and all I heard was

crickets in

Post by Dr. Who
these NG's. I also am not a fundy, by anyones definition.

Post by Jack Sovalot

Post by Dr. Who
I could go on an on,
but you all have a bible that you can read
for yourself.
But the bottom line is, Verify, Verify, Verify.
Try to read without being agenda bound
and look for the truth of the matter no
matter where it falls, and then triple check
to verify it.
Do not let an agenda blind or deafen you.

If we have an agenda, it's to point out that
the Bible isn't the infallible word of any god.
Thank you, Robert, I always appreciate your
responses and look forward to your
informative input.

Sad to say I won't be continuing in this as much as I would like

to. I have

Post by Dr. Who
no ill will towards you, and the conversations have been

interesting to say

Post by Dr. Who
the least. But why feed a person something that is repellent to

them, which

Post by Dr. Who
they abhor? If they hate veggies you have to let them be until they

grow and

Post by Dr. Who
their body cries out for it, then it is that they will eat them,

but not just

Post by Dr. Who
eat them, but take delight in them.
And so it is.

.
I love the Bible, Robert, mebbe as much as you do. It's hardly
"repellent" to me at all. In fact, I appreciate it more now than I
did when I was a fundy. Back then I'd read it hoping that my
nonexistent god would communicate something to me (how embarrassing
to admit). Now I study it because it's fascinating. Nothing else is
even remotely like it.

I find it difficult to understand how you would think that the Bible was so
interesting and yet not believe a word of it, spiritually. Even searching to
find things that you believer are contrary evidence for anything in it. As to
hearing the Lord, I first heard him in response to a question I asked him as
I was thinking and going to sleep. I wasn't reading much of the Bible at that
time and I was only around 13. He answered my question exactly as I asked it,
by experiential evidence, then he asked me If I was willing to give my Life
over to Jesus. Then it was that satan on the other side of me told me I was
just a kid, and hadn't experienced the grass on the other side of the fence,
back and forth it went, when I opted out at that time, a decision I now
painfully regret. I told him not now, later.....

It wasn't until near 17 years later and my life was in total turmoil, that I
decided yes, as there was no good alternative plan. Jesus occasionally over
the years reminded me of my statement "not now, later". I knew I should, when
he asked, but I deferred. During those years things happened some where I
rightfully should have been killed, and if it weren't for the prayers of my
Mom and guardian Angels who watched over me I would have been dead several
times. In one case I knew beyond doubt that an Angel preserved my life. All
those years I wasted, on myself and my plans and my desires, for what?

Yet when I came to the end of my rope with nowhere else to turn, having
exhausted all attempts to find satisfaction and peace from what was going on,
in pain and in tears, I demanded unceremoniously that which God and offered
me years before, even so much so that I shook my fist at him with an arm
extended upwards that I needed it at that moment.

Graciously and without a word, God filled me with what he promised years
before. It is forever indelible imprinted in my mind, soul and spirit. I
turned around, went to my bedroom, and prayed and asked him to forgive me and
I for sure gave him my life right then and there. I felt as if there was just
Him and me at that moment, yet knew I was but one of many. I have not looked
back since. I must have apologized to him for over two weeks at least when I
wasn't reading the Bible or working. Yes, even during my breaks or whatever,
I was apologizing.

Then as I read, I would ask questions and he would answer, sometime later. He
would also guide me as long as I was willing, still does. There was and is no
one righteous without God except Jesus Christ. I know that without any shadow
of doubt.

I have and do pray that he would reveal himself to you, and undeniably so.
Meeting your needs, your needs, your personal experience with him.

Actually I have prayed this for most everyone in your favorite NG. To what
end this will be I will only know, in heaven. Nonetheless I pray it for your
benefit, as Jesus is the one who paid the price for both you and I.

Post by Dr. Who
And your ability is unparalleled here. The only Usenet christer
capable of an argument. Also, you've taught me a lot and even
reversed my opinion on a couple of things. (e.g. Mark 1:41)

I rather doubt that, in regards to my ability. While I am happy to hear that
I was of some value to you.

[Jack Sovalot]

Post by Dr. Who

Post by Dr. Who

Post by Dr. Who

On Sat, 04 Mar 2023 22:45:11 -0800, Dr.

Post by Dr. Who
If you were to use his info, and base your
understanding on what he said, it would
come back to haunt you because you
never verified it.
Yes, some of the scripture he quoted was
correct but not when taken in context, and
especially no when one knows not the lay

That's irrelevant. His point was spot on. The
resurrection accounts contradict each other.

Actually they do not. There is a host of things his list missed

besides the

Post by Dr. Who
points I made.
You have a choice to believe what you will, by this statement and

in concert

Post by Dr. Who
with the others you have made it appears you have chosen what your

path and

Post by Dr. Who
are willing to dwell in eternal death. There is only one way to

heaven and

Post by Dr. Who
eternal life, just one. I will trouble you no further.

Post by Dr. Who
of the land and things like what a sabbath
days journey is.

I'm impressed you know what a sabbath
day's journey is, Robert. You and I are
probably the only ones here who do.

Post by Dr. Who
People on an agenda configure their
thoughts in such a way as to bring a
collection of partial truths to bolster their
argument, like a defense lawyer presents
partial facts to get their defendant who
murdered a friend declared not guilty, when
they knew all along he was totally guilty of
the crime. All they have to do is so seed
of doubt so as to confuse the
unknowledgeable.
In Mitchell's case he may very well not
know or have seen all the facts
surrounding what he presented.

Again, that's irrelevant to his point.

Post by Dr. Who
In his last package Paul the apostle was
known as Saul a persecuted of those who
followed Christ. So why would he be there
at the ascension? The Mt of Olives was at

He didn't say Paul was there at the
ascension. Only that there was no ascension
according to Paul.

Post by Dr. Who
Bethany. The four Gospels were written by
three Apostles and Luke. They were not
parroted words.

1. They're all parroted, paraphrased, or made
up by the author.
2. The authors weren't apostles. The gospels
were all written anonymously. The author
names weren't assigned to them until near
the end of the second century.

We have already discussed that, and I showed you the truth of the

matter.

Post by Dr. Who

Post by Dr. Who
Jesus after resurrection went to heaven
and returned the same day, and stayed on
earth for forty days.

LOL. Yes, of course you have to say that
because you're a fundy. But the scribe(s)
who omitted the ascension phrase from
Luke 24:51 (some manuscripts lack it) knew
better. They deleted it because it
embarrassed them.

No, I did not have to say anything like that. Fact is that this

point is not

Post by Dr. Who
made by most any current teacher, nor stressed by any. It was

revealed to me,

Post by Dr. Who
and so I shared it, and not only the point of it and why, but the

amount of

Post by Dr. Who
earth time that he spent in heaven before he returned.
I have previously made the point to others and all I heard was

crickets in

Post by Dr. Who
these NG's. I also am not a fundy, by anyones definition.

Post by Dr. Who
I could go on an on,
but you all have a bible that you can read
for yourself.
But the bottom line is, Verify, Verify, Verify.
Try to read without being agenda bound
and look for the truth of the matter no
matter where it falls, and then triple check
to verify it.
Do not let an agenda blind or deafen you.

If we have an agenda, it's to point out that
the Bible isn't the infallible word of any god.
Thank you, Robert, I always appreciate your
responses and look forward to your
informative input.

Sad to say I won't be continuing in this as much as I would like

to. I have

Post by Dr. Who
no ill will towards you, and the conversations have been

interesting to say

Post by Dr. Who
the least. But why feed a person something that is repellent to

them, which

Post by Dr. Who
they abhor? If they hate veggies you have to let them be until they

grow and

Post by Dr. Who
their body cries out for it, then it is that they will eat them,

but not just

Post by Dr. Who
eat them, but take delight in them.
And so it is.

.
I love the Bible, Robert, mebbe as much as you do. It's hardly
"repellent" to me at all. In fact, I appreciate it more now than I
did when I was a fundy. Back then I'd read it hoping that my
nonexistent god would communicate something to me (how

embarrassing

Post by Dr. Who

Post by Dr. Who
to admit). Now I study it because it's fascinating. Nothing else is
even remotely like it.

I find it difficult to understand how you would think that the

Bible was so

Post by Dr. Who
interesting and yet not believe a word of it, spiritually. Even searching to
find things that you believer are contrary evidence for anything in it. As to
hearing the Lord, I first heard him in response to a question I asked him as
I was thinking and going to sleep. I wasn't reading much of the Bible at that
time and I was only around 13. He answered my question exactly as I asked it,
by experiential evidence, then he asked me If I was willing to give my Life
over to Jesus. Then it was that satan on the other side of me told me I was
just a kid, and hadn't experienced the grass on the other side of the fence,
back and forth it went, when I opted out at that time, a decision I now
painfully regret. I told him not now, later.....
It wasn't until near 17 years later and my life was in total

turmoil, that I

Post by Dr. Who
decided yes, as there was no good alternative plan. Jesus

occasionally over

Post by Dr. Who
the years reminded me of my statement "not now, later". I knew I should, when
he asked, but I deferred. During those years things happened some where I
rightfully should have been killed, and if it weren't for the

prayers of my

Post by Dr. Who
Mom and guardian Angels who watched over me I would have been dead several
times. In one case I knew beyond doubt that an Angel preserved my life. All
those years I wasted, on myself and my plans and my desires, for what?
Yet when I came to the end of my rope with nowhere else to turn, having
exhausted all attempts to find satisfaction and peace from what was going on,
in pain and in tears, I demanded unceremoniously that which God and offered
me years before, even so much so that I shook my fist at him with an arm
extended upwards that I needed it at that moment.
Graciously and without a word, God filled me with what he promised years
before. It is forever indelible imprinted in my mind, soul and

spirit. I

Post by Dr. Who
turned around, went to my bedroom, and prayed and asked him to

forgive me and

Post by Dr. Who
I for sure gave him my life right then and there. I felt as if

there was just

Post by Dr. Who
Him and me at that moment, yet knew I was but one of many. I have not looked
back since. I must have apologized to him for over two weeks at least when I
wasn't reading the Bible or working. Yes, even during my breaks or whatever,
I was apologizing.
Then as I read, I would ask questions and he would answer, sometime later. He
would also guide me as long as I was willing, still does. There was and is no
one righteous without God except Jesus Christ. I know that without any shadow
of doubt.
I have and do pray that he would reveal himself to you, and

undeniably so.

Post by Dr. Who
Meeting your needs, your needs, your personal experience with him.
Actually I have prayed this for most everyone in your favorite NG. To what
end this will be I will only know, in heaven. Nonetheless I pray it for your
benefit, as Jesus is the one who paid the price for both you and I.

Thank you for sharing that, Robert.

[Maximus]

Post by Dr. Who

Post by Jack Sovalot

Post by Dr. Who
If you were to use his info, and base your
understanding on what he said, it would
come back to haunt you because you
never verified it.
Yes, some of the scripture he quoted was
correct but not when taken in context, and
especially no when one knows not the lay

That's irrelevant. His point was spot on. The
resurrection accounts contradict each other.

Actually they do not. There is a host of things his list missed besides the
points I made.
You have a choice to believe what you will, by this statement and in concert
with the others you have made it appears you have chosen what your path and
are willing to dwell in eternal death. There is only one way to heaven

there's no such place. Jesus taught of an earthly kingdom that would
exist after the apocalypse

Post by Dr. Who
and eternal life,

doesn't exist. there's no such thing as an immortal soul

Post by Dr. Who
just one.

you've been brainwashed

Post by Dr. Who
I will trouble you no further.

Post by Jack Sovalot

Post by Dr. Who
of the land and things like what a sabbath
days journey is.

I'm impressed you know what a sabbath
day's journey is, Robert. You and I are
probably the only ones here who do.

Post by Dr. Who
People on an agenda configure their
thoughts in such a way as to bring a
collection of partial truths to bolster their
argument, like a defense lawyer presents
partial facts to get their defendant who
murdered a friend declared not guilty, when
they knew all along he was totally guilty of
the crime. All they have to do is so seed
of doubt so as to confuse the
unknowledgeable.
In Mitchell's case he may very well not
know or have seen all the facts
surrounding what he presented.

Again, that's irrelevant to his point.

Post by Dr. Who
In his last package Paul the apostle was
known as Saul a persecuted of those who
followed Christ. So why would he be there
at the ascension? The Mt of Olives was at

He didn't say Paul was there at the
ascension. Only that there was no ascension
according to Paul.

Post by Dr. Who
Bethany. The four Gospels were written by
three Apostles and Luke. They were not
parroted words.

1. They're all parroted, paraphrased, or made
up by the author.
2. The authors weren't apostles. The gospels
were all written anonymously. The author
names weren't assigned to them until near
the end of the second century.

We have already discussed that, and I showed you the truth of the matter.

Post by Jack Sovalot

Post by Dr. Who
Jesus after resurrection went to heaven
and returned the same day, and stayed on
earth for forty days.

LOL. Yes, of course you have to say that
because you're a fundy. But the scribe(s)
who omitted the ascension phrase from
Luke 24:51 (some manuscripts lack it) knew
better. They deleted it because it
embarrassed them.

No, I did not have to say anything like that. Fact is that this point is not
made by most any current teacher, nor stressed by any. It was revealed to me,
and so I shared it, and not only the point of it and why, but the amount of
earth time that he spent in heaven before he returned.
I have previously made the point to others and all I heard was crickets in
these NG's. I also am not a fundy, by anyones definition.

Post by Jack Sovalot

Post by Dr. Who
I could go on an on,
but you all have a bible that you can read
for yourself.
But the bottom line is, Verify, Verify, Verify.
Try to read without being agenda bound
and look for the truth of the matter no
matter where it falls, and then triple check
to verify it.
Do not let an agenda blind or deafen you.

If we have an agenda, it's to point out that
the Bible isn't the infallible word of any god.
Thank you, Robert, I always appreciate your
responses and look forward to your
informative input.

Sad to say I won't be continuing in this as much as I would like to. I have
no ill will towards you, and the conversations have been interesting to say
the least. But why feed a person something that is repellent to them, which
they abhor? If they hate veggies you have to let them be until they grow and
their body cries out for it, then it is that they will eat them, but not just
eat them, but take delight in them.
And so it is.

[Dr. Who]

Post by Maximus

Post by Dr. Who

Post by Jack Sovalot

Post by Dr. Who
If you were to use his info, and base your
understanding on what he said, it would
come back to haunt you because you
never verified it.
Yes, some of the scripture he quoted was
correct but not when taken in context, and
especially no when one knows not the lay

That's irrelevant. His point was spot on. The
resurrection accounts contradict each other.

Actually they do not. There is a host of things his list missed besides the
points I made.
You have a choice to believe what you will, by this statement and in concert
with the others you have made it appears you have chosen what your path and
are willing to dwell in eternal death. There is only one way to heaven

there's no such place. Jesus taught of an earthly kingdom that would
exist after the apocalypse

Yes, he did, but that lasts only for 1,000 years and then this earth, galaxy,
and universe will be burnt up. After the judgment for heaven of the Lake of
Fire and Brimstone.

Post by Maximus

Post by Dr. Who
and eternal life,

doesn't exist. there's no such thing as an immortal soul

Your spirit is eternal.

Post by Maximus

Post by Dr. Who
just one.

you've been brainwashed

Yes, my mind is being renewed daily and washed in the blood of Jesus from all
sin.

Post by Maximus

Post by Dr. Who
I will trouble you no further.

Post by Jack Sovalot

Post by Dr. Who
of the land and things like what a sabbath
days journey is.

I'm impressed you know what a sabbath
day's journey is, Robert. You and I are
probably the only ones here who do.

Post by Dr. Who
People on an agenda configure their
thoughts in such a way as to bring a
collection of partial truths to bolster their
argument, like a defense lawyer presents
partial facts to get their defendant who
murdered a friend declared not guilty, when
they knew all along he was totally guilty of
the crime. All they have to do is so seed
of doubt so as to confuse the
unknowledgeable.
In Mitchell's case he may very well not
know or have seen all the facts
surrounding what he presented.

Again, that's irrelevant to his point.

Post by Dr. Who
In his last package Paul the apostle was
known as Saul a persecuted of those who
followed Christ. So why would he be there
at the ascension? The Mt of Olives was at

He didn't say Paul was there at the
ascension. Only that there was no ascension
according to Paul.

Post by Dr. Who
Bethany. The four Gospels were written by
three Apostles and Luke. They were not
parroted words.

1. They're all parroted, paraphrased, or made
up by the author.
2. The authors weren't apostles. The gospels
were all written anonymously. The author
names weren't assigned to them until near
the end of the second century.

We have already discussed that, and I showed you the truth of the matter.

Post by Jack Sovalot

Post by Dr. Who
Jesus after resurrection went to heaven
and returned the same day, and stayed on
earth for forty days.

LOL. Yes, of course you have to say that
because you're a fundy. But the scribe(s)
who omitted the ascension phrase from
Luke 24:51 (some manuscripts lack it) knew
better. They deleted it because it
embarrassed them.

No, I did not have to say anything like that. Fact is that this point is not
made by most any current teacher, nor stressed by any. It was revealed to me,
and so I shared it, and not only the point of it and why, but the amount of
earth time that he spent in heaven before he returned.
I have previously made the point to others and all I heard was crickets in
these NG's. I also am not a fundy, by anyones definition.

Post by Jack Sovalot

Post by Dr. Who
I could go on an on,
but you all have a bible that you can read
for yourself.
But the bottom line is, Verify, Verify, Verify.
Try to read without being agenda bound
and look for the truth of the matter no
matter where it falls, and then triple check
to verify it.
Do not let an agenda blind or deafen you.

If we have an agenda, it's to point out that
the Bible isn't the infallible word of any god.
Thank you, Robert, I always appreciate your
responses and look forward to your
informative input.

Sad to say I won't be continuing in this as much as I would like to. I have
no ill will towards you, and the conversations have been interesting to say
the least. But why feed a person something that is repellent to them, which
they abhor? If they hate veggies you have to let them be until they grow and
their body cries out for it, then it is that they will eat them, but not just
eat them, but take delight in them.
And so it is.

[Maximus]

Post by Dr. Who

Post by Jack Sovalot
On Sun, 05 Mar 2023 02:56:01 +0000, Mitchell Holman

On Sat, 4 Mar 2023 10:47:32 -0800 (PST), Slaveholders Can Tell Me

Was Not This Supposed To Be A Corpus of Testimonials about

Jesus'

Messiahship by witnesses?

About how Jesus of Nazareth became Jesus the Christ(Messiah)?
In the Court of Law, what we expect from a witness is

credibility

not inspiration.
Good point. The gospels are almost entirely bullshit.

Indeed.
Who were the women at the tomb?
Matthew: Mary Magdalene and the other Mary (28:1)
Mark: Mary Magdalene, the mother of James, and Salome (16:1)
Luke: Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and
other women (24:10)
John: Mary Magdalene (20:1)
What was their purpose?
Matthew: to see the tomb (28:1)
Mark: had already seen the tomb (15:47), brought spices (16:1)
Luke: had already seen the tomb (23:55), brought spices (24:1)
John: the body had already been spiced before they arrived
(19:39,40)
Was the tomb open when they arrived?
Matthew: No (28:2)
Mark: Yes (16:4)
Luke: Yes (24:2)
John: Yes (20:1)
Who was at the tomb when they arrived?
Matthew: One angel (28:2-7)
Mark: One young man (16:5)
Luke: Two men (24:4)
John: Two angels (20:12)
Where were these messengers situated?
Matthew: Angel sitting on the stone (28:2)
Mark: Young man sitting inside, on the right (16:5)
Luke: Two men standing inside (24:4)
John: Two angels sitting on each end of the bed (20:12)
Did the women tell what happened?
Matthew: Yes (28:8)
Mark: No. "Neither said they any thing to any man." (16:8)
Luke: Yes. "And they returned from the tomb and told all
these things to the eleven, and to all the rest." (24:9,22-24)
John: Yes (20:18)
When Mary returned from the tomb, did she know Jesus had
been resurrected?
Matthew: Yes (28:7-8)
Mark: Yes (16:10,11)
Luke: Yes (24:6-9,23)
John: No (20:2)
When did Mary first see Jesus?
Matthew: Before she returned to the disciples (28:9)
Mark: Before she returned to the disciples (16:9,10)
John: After she returned to the disciples (20:2,14)
Could Jesus be touched after the resurrection?
Matthew: Yes (28:9)
John: No (20:17), Yes (20:27)
After the women, to whom did Jesus first appear?
Matthew: Eleven disciples (28:16)
Mark: Two disciples in the country, later to eleven (16:12,14)
Luke: Two disciples in Emmaus, later to eleven (24:13,36)
John: Ten disciples (Judas and Thomas were absent) (20:19, 24)
Paul: First to Cephas (Peter), then to the twelve. (Twelve?
Judas was dead). (I Corinthians 15:5)
Where did Jesus first appear to the disciples?
Matthew: On a mountain in Galilee (60-100 miles away)
(28:16-17)
Mark: Totwo in the country, to eleven "as they sat at
meat" (16:12,14)
Luke: In Emmaus (about seven miles away) at evening, to
the rest in a room in Jerusalem later that night. (24:31,36)
John: In a room, at evening (20:19)
Did the disciples believe the two men?
Mark: No (16:13)
Luke: Yes (24:34--it is the group speaking here, not the two)
What happened at the appearance?
Matthew: Disciples worshipped, some doubted, "Go preach."

(28:17-20)

Mark: Jesus reprimanded them, said "Go preach" (16:14-19)
Luke: Christ incognito, vanishing act, materialized out of thin
air, reprimand, supper (24:13-51)
John: Passed through solid door, disciples happy, Jesus blesses
them, no reprimand (21:19-23)
Did Jesus stay on earth for a while?
Mark: No (16:19) Compare 16:14 with John 20:19 to show that
this was all done on Sunday
Luke: No (24:50-52) It all happened on Sunday
John: Yes, at least eight days (20:26, 21:1-22)
Acts: Yes, at least forty days (1:3)
Where did the ascension take place?
Matthew: No ascension. Book ends on mountain in Galilee
Mark: In or near Jerusalem, after supper (16:19)
Luke: In Bethany, very close to Jerusalem, after supper (24:50-51)
John: No ascension
Paul: No ascension
Acts: Ascended from Mount of Olives (1:9-12)

Thanks so much, Mitchell, I've long admired your collections and
appreciated your contributions to the group.

If you were to use his info, and base your understanding on what he said, it
would come back to haunt you because you never verified it.
Yes, some of the scripture he quoted was correct but not when taken in
context, and especially no when one knows not the lay of the land and things
like what a sabbath days journey is.
People on an agenda configure their thoughts in such a way as to bring a
collection of partial truths to bolster their argument, like a defense lawyer
presents partial facts to get their defendant who murdered a friend declared
not guilty, when they knew all along he was totally guilty of the crime. All
they have to do is so seeds of doubt so as to confuse the unknowledgeable.
In Mitchell's case he may very well not know or have seen all the facts
surrounding what he presented.
In his last package Paul the apostle was known as Saul a persecuted of those
who followed Christ. So why would he be there at the ascension? The Mt of
Olives was at Bethany. The four Gospels were written by three Apostles and
Luke.

the gospels were not written by any Apostles. the gospels were written
by educated Greeks many decades after the events and based on oral
traditions. the names were ascribed by the Xtian church.

Post by Dr. Who
They were not parroted words.
Jesus after resurrection went to heaven and returned the same day, and stayed
on earth for forty days. I could go on an on, but you all have a bible that
you can read for yourself.
But the bottom line is, Verify, Verify, Verify. Try to read without being
agenda bound and look for the truth of the matter no matter where it falls,
and then triple check to verify it.

and that is something you cannot do. your beliefs are based on bible
stories that cannot be verified.

Post by Dr. Who
Do not let an agenda blind or deafen you.

Post by Jack Sovalot
Yes, the inconsistencies in the post-resurrection accounts make it
clear there must have been dozens of such made up stories. What
actually must have happened was just that some (two? three?) of
Jesus's disciples thought they saw him alive after he died. That
happens repeatedly -- more people have seen Elvis than Jesus.
I read recently on Ehrman's blog that he's come to the conclusion
that Jesus's body was left on the cross to rot, as the Romans did
with most of their crucifixion victims. But whether or not that's so,
there was no tomb, as several pieces of evidence make apparent. That
was just invented later to add plausibility.

[Dr. Who]

Post by Maximus

Post by Dr. Who

Post by Jack Sovalot
On Sun, 05 Mar 2023 02:56:01 +0000, Mitchell Holman

On Sat, 4 Mar 2023 10:47:32 -0800 (PST), Slaveholders Can Tell Me

Was Not This Supposed To Be A Corpus of Testimonials about

Jesus'

Messiahship by witnesses?

About how Jesus of Nazareth became Jesus the Christ(Messiah)?
In the Court of Law, what we expect from a witness is

credibility

not inspiration.
Good point. The gospels are almost entirely bullshit.

Indeed.
Who were the women at the tomb?
Matthew: Mary Magdalene and the other Mary (28:1)
Mark: Mary Magdalene, the mother of James, and Salome (16:1)
Luke: Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and
other women (24:10)
John: Mary Magdalene (20:1)
What was their purpose?
Matthew: to see the tomb (28:1)
Mark: had already seen the tomb (15:47), brought spices (16:1)
Luke: had already seen the tomb (23:55), brought spices (24:1)
John: the body had already been spiced before they arrived
(19:39,40)
Was the tomb open when they arrived?
Matthew: No (28:2)
Mark: Yes (16:4)
Luke: Yes (24:2)
John: Yes (20:1)
Who was at the tomb when they arrived?
Matthew: One angel (28:2-7)
Mark: One young man (16:5)
Luke: Two men (24:4)
John: Two angels (20:12)
Where were these messengers situated?
Matthew: Angel sitting on the stone (28:2)
Mark: Young man sitting inside, on the right (16:5)
Luke: Two men standing inside (24:4)
John: Two angels sitting on each end of the bed (20:12)
Did the women tell what happened?
Matthew: Yes (28:8)
Mark: No. "Neither said they any thing to any man." (16:8)
Luke: Yes. "And they returned from the tomb and told all
these things to the eleven, and to all the rest." (24:9,22-24)
John: Yes (20:18)
When Mary returned from the tomb, did she know Jesus had
been resurrected?
Matthew: Yes (28:7-8)
Mark: Yes (16:10,11)
Luke: Yes (24:6-9,23)
John: No (20:2)
When did Mary first see Jesus?
Matthew: Before she returned to the disciples (28:9)
Mark: Before she returned to the disciples (16:9,10)
John: After she returned to the disciples (20:2,14)
Could Jesus be touched after the resurrection?
Matthew: Yes (28:9)
John: No (20:17), Yes (20:27)
After the women, to whom did Jesus first appear?
Matthew: Eleven disciples (28:16)
Mark: Two disciples in the country, later to eleven (16:12,14)
Luke: Two disciples in Emmaus, later to eleven (24:13,36)
John: Ten disciples (Judas and Thomas were absent) (20:19, 24)
Paul: First to Cephas (Peter), then to the twelve. (Twelve?
Judas was dead). (I Corinthians 15:5)
Where did Jesus first appear to the disciples?
Matthew: On a mountain in Galilee (60-100 miles away)
(28:16-17)
Mark: Totwo in the country, to eleven "as they sat at
meat" (16:12,14)
Luke: In Emmaus (about seven miles away) at evening, to
the rest in a room in Jerusalem later that night. (24:31,36)
John: In a room, at evening (20:19)
Did the disciples believe the two men?
Mark: No (16:13)
Luke: Yes (24:34--it is the group speaking here, not the two)
What happened at the appearance?
Matthew: Disciples worshipped, some doubted, "Go preach."

(28:17-20)

Mark: Jesus reprimanded them, said "Go preach" (16:14-19)
Luke: Christ incognito, vanishing act, materialized out of thin
air, reprimand, supper (24:13-51)
John: Passed through solid door, disciples happy, Jesus blesses
them, no reprimand (21:19-23)
Did Jesus stay on earth for a while?
Mark: No (16:19) Compare 16:14 with John 20:19 to show that
this was all done on Sunday
Luke: No (24:50-52) It all happened on Sunday
John: Yes, at least eight days (20:26, 21:1-22)
Acts: Yes, at least forty days (1:3)
Where did the ascension take place?
Matthew: No ascension. Book ends on mountain in Galilee
Mark: In or near Jerusalem, after supper (16:19)
Luke: In Bethany, very close to Jerusalem, after supper (24:50-51)
John: No ascension
Paul: No ascension
Acts: Ascended from Mount of Olives (1:9-12)

Thanks so much, Mitchell, I've long admired your collections and
appreciated your contributions to the group.

If you were to use his info, and base your understanding on what he said, it
would come back to haunt you because you never verified it.
Yes, some of the scripture he quoted was correct but not when taken in
context, and especially no when one knows not the lay of the land and things
like what a sabbath days journey is.
People on an agenda configure their thoughts in such a way as to bring a
collection of partial truths to bolster their argument, like a defense lawyer
presents partial facts to get their defendant who murdered a friend declared
not guilty, when they knew all along he was totally guilty of the crime. All
they have to do is so seeds of doubt so as to confuse the unknowledgeable.
In Mitchell's case he may very well not know or have seen all the facts
surrounding what he presented.
In his last package Paul the apostle was known as Saul a persecuted of those
who followed Christ. So why would he be there at the ascension? The Mt of
Olives was at Bethany. The four Gospels were written by three Apostles and
Luke.

the gospels were not written by any Apostles. the gospels were written
by educated Greeks many decades after the events and based on oral
traditions. the names were ascribed by the Xtian church.

The Gospel of Matthew was written by a publican whom the Lord Jesus had put
His hand upon in a very definite way (see Mat 9:9). He was a follower, a
disciple, of the Lord Jesus. Papias says, Eusebius confirms, and other of the
apostolic fathers agree, that this Gospel was written originally by Matthew
in Hebrew for the nation Israel, a religious people.

This man Mark was one of the writers of the New Testament who was not
actually an apostle. Matthew was an apostle, of course, and so was John. Luke
was a very close friend and an intimate of Paul the apostle.

Mark's full name was John Mark—John was his Jewish name, while Mark was his
Latin surname (Act 12:12): “And when he had considered the thing, he came
to the house of Mary the mother of John, whose surname was Mark; where many
were gathered together praying.” (This is referring to the time when Simon
Peter was released from prison.) Actually, this is the first historical
reference to John Mark that we have in Scripture. Obviously, his mother was a
wealthy and prominent Christian in the Jerusalem church, and evidently the
church there met in her home.

Luke was the beloved physician of Col 4:14, “Luke, the beloved physician,
and Demas, greet you.” He used more medical terms than Hippocrates, the
father of medicine. The choice of Luke by the Holy Spirit to write the third
gospel reveals that there are no accidental writers of Scripture. There was a
supernatural selection of Luke. There were “not many wise” called, but
Luke belongs to that category. He and Paul were evidently on a very high
intellectual level as well as a high spiritual level. This explains partially
why they traveled together and obviously became fast friends in the Lord. Dr.
Luke would rank as a scientist of his day. Also he wrote the best Greek of
any of the New Testament writers, including Paul. He was an accurate
historian, as we shall see. Luke was a poet; he alone records the lovely
songs of Christmas. Luke was an artist; he sketches for us Christ's
marvelous, matchless parables.

One of the reasons it was felt that John might not be the writer was because
Papias (I've quoted him now for each of the Gospels) was thought to have
never mentioned the authorship of John. But Professor Tischendorf, the German
who found the Codex Sinaiticus, which is probably our best manuscript of the
Old Testament, down in Saint Catherine's Monastery in the Sinaitic peninsula,
was working in the Vatican library when he came upon an old manuscript that
has a quotation from Papias in which it was made clear that John was the
author of this Gospel. I personally wouldn't want any better authority than
that.

All the statements above were written by Dr. McGee.

Post by Maximus

Post by Dr. Who
They were not parroted words.
Jesus after resurrection went to heaven and returned the same day, and stayed
on earth for forty days. I could go on an on, but you all have a bible that
you can read for yourself.
But the bottom line is, Verify, Verify, Verify. Try to read without being
agenda bound and look for the truth of the matter no matter where it falls,
and then triple check to verify it.

and that is something you cannot do. your beliefs are based on bible
stories that cannot be verified.

That you cannot verify them is true for you are not in the position to. Who
are you to say what is and what isn't when you have limited knowledge and
understanding?

Post by Maximus

Post by Dr. Who
Do not let an agenda blind or deafen you.

Post by Jack Sovalot
Yes, the inconsistencies in the post-resurrection accounts make it
clear there must have been dozens of such made up stories. What
actually must have happened was just that some (two? three?) of
Jesus's disciples thought they saw him alive after he died. That
happens repeatedly -- more people have seen Elvis than Jesus.
I read recently on Ehrman's blog that he's come to the conclusion
that Jesus's body was left on the cross to rot, as the Romans did
with most of their crucifixion victims. But whether or not that's so,
there was no tomb, as several pieces of evidence make apparent. That
was just invented later to add plausibility.