"Pretense" in Philippians 1:18

[t***@hotmail.com]

Some people claim that in Philippians 1:15-18 Paul says that it is OK
to lie while preaching the Gospel.

That is *not* true, as the following proves:

-----------------betgin quote------------


Some indeed preach Christ even from envy and strife, and some also
from goodwill:

The former preach Christ from selfish ambition, not sincerely,
supposing to add affliction to my chains;

but the latter out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the
defense of the gospel.

What then? Only [that] in every way, whether in pretense or in truth,
Christ is preached; and in this I rejoice, yes, and will rejoice.

- Philippians 1:15-18 quoted from
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Phl&c=1&t=NKJV


--------------end quote----------------

That Greek word for "pretense" is also seen in Matthew 23:14 and in
Mark 12:40
where the meaning is clearly "for show".

That meaning of "pretense" is also seen in the dictionary at:

"... 7 - The quality or state of being pretentious; ostentation."
- http://www.answers.com/topic/pretense

In the 2 verses spoken by Jesus, the people are putting on a *show*
so that others will notice rather than doing it for God.
Jesus is not accusing those people of lying.
Jesus is accusing those people of having wrong motives,
accusing them of being pretentious and ostentatious.

When you look at the context of the 4 verses in Philippians 1:15-18,
Paul is using the word "pretense" in the same way.
Paul says that there are some people who preach the true Gospel
but they do it for selfish reasons rather than for Godly reasons.

That "pretense" has nothing to do with "lying" in preaching the
Gospel.
That "pretense" has to do with preaching the true Gospel for wrong
motives.

Paul says that the audience does not know what the preacher's motives
are.

In fact, from the audience's point of view, the preacher's motives are
unknowable and irreleveant.

The most important thing is that the audience is hearing the true
Gospel, even in those cases where the preacher might be preaching from
wrong motives.

A preacher can preach the true Gospel for wrong motives and the people
in the audience can *still* become saved, because God is able to use
extremely flawed instruments in accomplishing His will.

Jesus is the Messiah

[t***@hotmail.com]

Post by t***@hotmail.com
Some people claim that in Philippians 1:15-18 Paul says that it is OK
to lie while preaching the Gospel.
-----------------betgin quote------------
Some indeed preach Christ even from envy and strife, and some also
The former preach Christ from selfish ambition, not sincerely,
supposing to add affliction to my chains;
but the latter out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the
defense of the gospel.
What then? Only [that] in every way, whether in pretense or in truth,
Christ is preached; and in this I rejoice, yes, and will rejoice.
- Philippians 1:15-18 quoted fromhttp://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Phl&c=1&t=NKJV
--------------end quote----------------
That Greek word for "pretense" is also seen in Matthew 23:14 and in
Mark 12:40
where the meaning is clearly "for show".
"... 7 - The quality or state of being pretentious; ostentation."
-http://www.answers.com/topic/pretense
In the 2 verses spoken by Jesus, the people are putting on a *show*
so that others will notice rather than doing it for God.
Jesus is not accusing those people of lying.
Jesus is accusing those people of having wrong motives,
accusing them of being pretentious and ostentatious.
When you look at the context of the 4 verses in Philippians 1:15-18,
Paul is using the word "pretense" in the same way.
Paul says that there are some people who preach the true Gospel
but they do it for selfish reasons rather than for Godly reasons.
That "pretense" has nothing to do with "lying" in preaching the
Gospel.
That "pretense" has to do with preaching the true Gospel for wrong
motives.
Paul says that the audience does not know what the preacher's motives
are.
In fact, from the audience's point of view, the preacher's motives are
unknowable and irreleveant.
The most important thing is that the audience is hearing the true
Gospel, even in those cases where the preacher might be preaching from
wrong motives.
A preacher can preach the true Gospel for wrong motives and the people
in the audience can *still* become saved, because God is able to use
extremely flawed instruments in accomplishing His will.
Jesus is the Messiah

======================

Yet Linda Lee is *still* using that verse to lie about Paul.

Jesus is the Messiah

[randy]

<***@hotmail.com>
"Yet Linda Lee is *still* using that verse to lie about Paul."

Maybe that is our opportunity to drive home the *real truth* about what Paul
taught? ;)
randy

[randy]

Post by t***@hotmail.com
Some people claim that in Philippians 1:15-18 Paul says that it is OK
to lie while preaching the Gospel.
-----------------betgin quote------------
What then? Only [that] in every way, whether in pretense or in truth,
Christ is preached; and in this I rejoice, yes, and will rejoice.
...That Greek word for "pretense" is also seen in Matthew 23:14 and in
Mark 12:40
where the meaning is clearly "for show".
...That "pretense" has nothing to do with "lying" in preaching the
Gospel.
That "pretense" has to do with preaching the true Gospel for wrong
motives....

That sounds like the "Linda Lee" approach to Paul. Obviously, Paul is saying
something like, even if the enemies of Christ are badmouthing him, I thank
God that at least they are discussing him, ie perpetuating the question.

What you say is quite true. Paul made it explicitly clear in other passages
that he is opposed to lying. For example, Colossians 3: "Do not lie to one
another, seeing that you have put off the old nature with its practices and
have put on the new nature, which is being renewed in knowledge after the
image of its creator."

Paul makes no effort to justify his enemies' tactics in opposing Christ. But
he does see even in his enemies' schemes a divine purpose through which
Christ is glorified.
randy

[t***@hotmail.com]

Post by t***@hotmail.com
Some people claim that in Philippians 1:15-18 Paul says that it is OK
to lie while preaching the Gospel.
-----------------betgin quote------------
Some indeed preach Christ even from envy and strife, and some also
The former preach Christ from selfish ambition, not sincerely,
supposing to add affliction to my chains;
but the latter out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the
defense of the gospel.
What then? Only [that] in every way, whether in pretense or in truth,
Christ is preached; and in this I rejoice, yes, and will rejoice.
- Philippians 1:15-18 quoted fromhttp://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Phl&c=1&t=NKJV
--------------end quote----------------
That Greek word for "pretense" is also seen in Matthew 23:14 and in
Mark 12:40
where the meaning is clearly "for show".
"... 7 - The quality or state of being pretentious; ostentation."
-http://www.answers.com/topic/pretense
In the 2 verses spoken by Jesus, the people are putting on a *show*
so that others will notice rather than doing it for God.
Jesus is not accusing those people of lying.
Jesus is accusing those people of having wrong motives,
accusing them of being pretentious and ostentatious.
When you look at the context of the 4 verses in Philippians 1:15-18,
Paul is using the word "pretense" in the same way.
Paul says that there are some people who preach the true Gospel
but they do it for selfish reasons rather than for Godly reasons.
That "pretense" has nothing to do with "lying" in preaching the
Gospel.
That "pretense" has to do with preaching the true Gospel for wrong
motives.
Paul says that the audience does not know what the preacher's motives
are.
In fact, from the audience's point of view, the preacher's motives are
unknowable and irreleveant.
The most important thing is that the audience is hearing the true
Gospel, even in those cases where the preacher might be preaching from
wrong motives.
A preacher can preach the true Gospel for wrong motives and the people
in the audience can *still* become saved, because God is able to use
extremely flawed instruments in accomplishing His will.
Jesus is the Messiah

======================

Linda Lee *continues* to use this passage to condemn Paul,
even though I have proven that she is lying about what
the passage says.

Jesus is the Messiah

[randy]

Post by t***@hotmail.com
That Greek word for "pretense" is also seen in Matthew 23:14 and in
Mark 12:40
where the meaning is clearly "for show".

"Linda Lee *continues* to use this passage to condemn Paul,
even though I have proven that she is lying about what
the passage says."

Her failure to respond to this point forces me to make several conclusions.
One, she is not interested in true debate. Two, she is less interested in
the validity of what Paul said than in coming up with reasons to reject Paul
as an apostle. Having decided in advance that Paul *could not* be a genuine
apostle, she tries to read into statements of his that appear on the surface
to be malicious and evil. In fact, most of what he said has endured
centuries of questioning, very little of it agreeing with Linda's
conclusions.
randy