Post by JamesPost by RobertPost by JamesPost by RobertPost by JamesOn Thu, 4 May 2023 09:24:25 +1000, Michael McLean
Post by Michael McLean"Father and Son, Same Holy Spirit." "One God."
The Lord Jesus is God, or we all have no Saviour, or God has not saved
anyone.
- Revised Standard
John 14:28 You heard me say to you, 'I go away, and I will come to
you.' If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the
Father; for the Father is greater than I.
-- Revised Standard
Matthew 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the
angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.
All you have shown here is that it refers to two persons of the Godhead.
The churches' logic is flawed. If Jesus and God are part of a Godhead,
then Jesus IS God. Yet they are not. Satan must be laughing to beat
the band. To believe something so illogical. He has really pulled the
wool over your eyes.
“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them
have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and
over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that
creepeth upon the earth.” (Gen 1:26)
Yet you say that you believe ALL scripture.
All JW's do. Gen 1:26 was told to the then perfect Adam and Eve.
Yes, however, God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. He remains the
same whether you be saint or sinner. There was two main points to referring you
to that scripture. Neither of which you appear to have seen.
1 - God there is Elohim which is by definition plural.
2 - "Let us" which re-enforces #1.
Which destroys all the basic theology of the JW, and shows that all who believe
otherwise are believing a lie.
Post by JamesPost by RobertPost by JamesPost by Robert“And as long as I live I will continue to awaken you with this reminder,
since our Lord Jesus, the Anointed One, has clearly revealed that my departure
is near. Indeed, I’m passionate to share these things with you so that you
will always remember them after my exodus from this life.” (2Pe 1:13-15)
Here Peter shows you what happens to the righteous ones who never die.
Actually they have to give up their earthly body (which caused death),
and God gives them a spirit body to enter Heaven. But the number of
them is fixed at 144,000. (Rev 14:1; 7:4)
“And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept
arose,” (Mat 27:52)
Earthquakes are notorious for upending caskets in graveyards. Bodies
fall out and are laying around all over the place. Yes, they were
"raised".
Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the
holy city, and appeared unto many.
Very clearly these saints of old were seen by many of the people in Jerusalem.
What you said was pure foolishness, so you made up excuses for your false
teaching and understanding. Haven't you ever felt gullible and taken in by the
false doctrines of the JW's.
There are no "spirit bodies". as you define them, the saints will all have
bodies like the one Jesus had. Which as you were shown from scripture was not a
"spirit body",
Post by JamesPost by Robert“But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which
are asleep,
Notice the dead are "asleep". Yes they are dead awaiting a
resurrection. (Acts 24:15)
Again you are in error. It is the bodies, IOW's the tabernacles of the departed
that await resurrection.
2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body,
and to be present with the Lord. See 2Co 5:1-10 for the full context. It
opposes the teachings of the JW and further exemplifies that they understand
not, having their spiritual eyes darkened.
Post by JamesPost by Robertthat ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we
believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus
will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that
we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent
them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a
shout, with the voice of the archangel,
This verse shows that Jesus was Michael the archangel. There is only
one archangel in the Bible. And only an archangel can have a voice of
an archangel, which Jesus did have.
More foolishness, Did not Jehovah speak in a loud voice to the nation of Israel
in the desert? Did not God the Heavenly Father speak with a loud voice when
Jesus was baptized by John in the river Jordan, and say, "This is my beloved
son in whom I am well pleased"? For ALL the people gathered there to hear, and
did not his Father say things similar in other places from time to time?
All you have presented is the false doctrine of the JW, and no scripture to
back it up.
James you have access to many bibles, you cannot speak from any JW version as
they are false. So you use others and case shade on them. Just like Satan did
in the garden of Eden to Eve.
Post by JamesPost by Robertand with the trump of God: and the dead
in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught
up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so
shall we ever be with the Lord.” (1Th 4:13-17)
So just what is resurrected? Bodies? Like Jesus who is the first resurrected?
Was his a spirit body?
Yes.
Wrong.
Post by James-- Revised Standard
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the
righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being
put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit;
You have been shown this countless times, so that you are without excuse.
Luk 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see;
for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
When God created Adam, he first fashioned a body out of the ground. No life,
not a "spirit body" for it was made of Clay. Then he "blew" life into him and
Adam became a living soul. Encased in his tabernacle, from which he departed at
the point of death. Same with all men.
Post by JamesPost by Robert“And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in
your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me,
and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.” (Luk
24:38-39)
Again, you say that you believe all of scripture, yet you lie about this.
You are mistaken. Jesus did like the angels of Noah's day, and
materialized a body to be seen by his disciples.But it was not the
same body he had earlier.
Again you make up excuses and theology in order to believe a lie. There is no
room for any sin, nor any sin stained object in heaven, and since the fall of
man all have been born and conceived in sin. This is true also of Jesus.
“Man that is born of a woman is of few days, and full of trouble. He cometh
forth like a flower, and is cut down: he fleeth also as a shadow, and
continueth not. And dost thou open thine eyes upon such an one, and bringest me
into judgment with thee? Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not
one. Seeing his days are determined, the number of his months are with thee,
thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass;” (Job 14:1-5)
For this reason Jesus was tempted in like manner as is all man.
From your statement above one could construe that Jesus was never a reality,
therefor not the promised society, and that his life and manner of death was
fraudulent as he was never ever here, just a 3D image used to fool and
manipulate all that were around at that time.
But to show you and all the doubters that he was real he had Thomas put his
hand into his side, and fingers into the holes, while he also ate food with
them. Your doctrine makes a mockery or the entire bible, as you are
re-constructionists ordered from Hell by Satan to fool and deceive others.
For those as well as other reasons Paul said to let them be accursed as they
bring another "Gospel" then what God has given us.
Yet you have no fear of God within you.
Post by JamesPost by RobertPost by JamesPost by RobertIt was the same with Jesus, who was sacrificed for sin. At that time all the
redeemed went to Hell to dwell in paradise,
The Bible "hell" is not a 'hellfire' place. (Heb sheol; Gr hades) It
is the common grave of all of dead mankind. Job wanted to go to hell
(sheol) to get RELIEF from his pain. Notice this proof by comparing
“And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels
into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he
lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in
his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send
Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue;
for I am tormented in this flame.” (Luk 16:22-24)
What is the rich man doing dead but still talking? Jesus said the dead
are sleeping. Also, what is Abraham doing alive when he had died
earlier. He also should be 'sleeping'.How could a few drops of water
bring relief to a fiery tormented person?
That account in Luke is a PARABLE. Which is a fictional story given to
make some moral point.At first, that is the only way Jesus talked.
As you have been shown, from scripture, the spirit of man departs the body at
the moment of death. There can be no denial of that. It then goes today either
to heaven or hell. Well established in Scripture by the author of it, the
Heavenly Father. It was no parable, there was no interpretation of this as was
done for parables.
God does not deal with moral points they are spiritual points. Morality is of
man.
Furthermore for your edification there is this, from the OT.
“Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me
up Samuel. And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the
woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul. And
the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said
unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth. And he said unto her, What
form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a
mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to
the ground, and bowed himself. And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou
disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the
Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me
no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that
thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do. Then said Samuel, Wherefore
then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become
thine enemy?” (1Sa 28:11-16)
It follows suit with all of scripture, not with your deceptive doctrines and
lies of Satan. It is and OT example of what Jesus spoke of above.
Post by JamesPost by RobertWhat part of flame do you not understand?
What part of the parable don't you understand.(the rich man stood for
the Scribes and Pharisees)
Then show the proof, as you have none. The people you spoke of were alive and
well, they did not pray to Abraham to send anyone to reveal Jesus unto them.
Who is the originator of that ludicrous idea?
Post by JamesPost by RobertJob, had he gone to hell would have gone to the part of it that was called
paradise.
Hellfire is no paradise. How could a person enjoy a real paradise when
he knows that in another place people are being BURNED ALIVE!!!
Your God is a sadist. Mine is a God of love. (1 John 4:8)
You evidently are totally spiritually blind as you cannot differentiate between
the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, or do you just deny that there is any
New Covenant of God?
Post by JamesPost by RobertPost by JamesWYC
Who giveth this to me, that thou defend me in hell, and that thou hide
me, till thy great vengeance pass; and that thou set to me a time, in
which thou have mind on me? (I wish, that thou would hide me in Sheol,
yea, that thou would hide me until thy great vengeance pass; and then
that thou would set a time for me, in which thou would remember me!)
-- New American Standard
Job 14:13 "Oh that You would hide me in Sheol, That You would conceal
me until Your wrath returns {to You,} That You would set a limit for
me and remember me!
“If only you would hide me in the grave
and conceal me till your anger has passed!
If only you would set me a time
and then remember me! (Job 14:13; NIV)
Thus hell= sheol= grave. Research it to prove it for yourself.
I showed you the scripture above, spoken by the mouth of Jesus.
And I showed you the truth about it.
No, you showed a false understanding, a deception. Men in those days were never
"Born Again". More proof that you do not accept the scripture of God as
written.
Post by JamesPost by RobertPost by JamesPost by Robertbut he went to hell bearing all the
sin of all of mankind, he took the abuse and won the Battle with satan,
regained all dominion and power, and set the captives free.
Yes, Jesus went to sheol (hell), the grave.
The same place that the rich man went to, since he was made sin for all men,
yet was without sin. He also went to Paradise once he had fulfilled what he
had to do while he was in hell.
Jesus was 'sleeping' when he went to his grave.He was dead for the
three days.
Then just how did he preach to those in hell.
“He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was
not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.” (Act 2:31)
“For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that
he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the
Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which
sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the
days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls
were saved by water.” (1Pe 3:18-20)
“Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive,
and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also
descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the
same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all
things.)” (Eph 4:8-10)
Lower parts of the earth is not a grave. See Matt 12:40
Post by JamesPost by Robert“But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift
of Christ. Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity
captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he
also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is
the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all
things.)” (Eph 4:7-10)
"Lower parts of the earth" IOW the pits of hell.
Do you believe that hellfire actually exists down inside of the earth?
The word of God says so, and I believe that, and not only that but there have
been many who died and went there and saw the sides of the pits, Hell, and the
lower they went the more intense the heat. Look at what comes out of the bowels
of the earth, and then tell everyone that what they see is not real.
Post by JamesPost by RobertWake up! Listen up! Lest you be also sent to that place of torment, and from
their to the second death.
As the Bible says, you have a zeal for God, but no according to
accurate knowledge.
No it does not.
Rom 15:14 And I myself also am persuaded of you, my brethren, that ye also are
full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another.
However, this is for the Born Again ones.
Post by JamesPost by RobertPost by JamesPost by RobertThat you have chosen to believe a lie does not make it truth, no more than
those of the woke crowd that believe they are a man in a woman's body can be a
man.
All sounds right to me.
Of course, your spiritual father is the god of this earth, the evil one.
This is also the reason that you are given to believe a lie, as taught to you
by your cult leaders, teaching you to trust them and that believing their lies
and sharing them is not lying, since you really believe what they say, even tho
it opposes scripture, as you have been shown in this replay.
You can (and do) twist the Scriptures to support your religious
beliefs. All I can do is show you the real Scriptural applications.
Show me where I have twisted one scripture. I have shown you herein and in many
other posts where you and your cult are full of deceptions.
Fact is, many times you have quoted one scripture to make a point, and I have
shown you that same scripture in context with the immediate surrounding
scripture that not only destroyed your lies, and false truths, but emphasized
the truth of God.
Post by JamesPost by RobertPost by JamesPost by RobertYour religious doctrine of whatever you are taught to believe is truth, no
matter how the Bible opposes your cult religion has been prophesied of for
the last days.
Show me where the Bible opposes our 'cult' religion. This I got to
see. I can support ALL our religious doctrines from the Bible. Can you
say the same thing, Robert?
I have shown you scripture over the past 20 years at least. Just as you were
shown it here, today.
Has it been that long?
For as long and you have inhabited these groups. So it may be a lot longer.
Post by JamesPost by RobertAnd No, I cannot say the same thing, since I do not follow a religion, I follow
Christ. I also do not follow a cult. I am part of the Body of Christ. The
brotherhood of Christ, part of an ekklesia,
To have God's favor, you must be part of the true religion. You just
can't sit at home in your easy chair, and say I believe thus I will be
saved.
The only religion ordained of God was Judaism, and that for a time until Christ
came and fulfilled it all.
Post by JamesThe apostle Paul tells us some of the structure of the true religion.
There are overseers and overseers helpers, ministerial servants. And
he mentions that they should not be drunkards, and have a family in
subjection, etc.(1 Tim 3:1-16)
Thus to be in the truth, you must be in a religion.
Sorry bubba, that is for the ekklesia, not a religion.
Post by JamesPost by RobertPost by JamesPost by RobertWhenever that truth rings in your ears and you stiffen up and deny it, you
are hardening your heart against the Lord of Hosts. God will allow you to
believe a
delusion for which it will be impossible to deny on the day of judgment.
What a terrible state to be in.
Sorry, but yes you are. And I agree that is a terrible state to be in.
All you have to do is RESEARCH the Bible doctrines. Don't just accept
church beliefs, such as a pagan Trinity God, and a sick God created a
tortuous hellfire place.
I have told you numerous times that I do not subscribe to any trinity.
Sorry about my bad memory.
Yes, it is always faulty, as is your promises not to repeat this action where I
am concerned.
Post by JamesPost by RobertOf
doctrine thereof. There is no such verbiage in the Holy Bible, God created
the places of torture for the devil and his angelic followers, he sends part of
his human creation there, to the place meant for Satan, as they likewise do
not follow him but set themselves up as gods.
Doesn't even common sense tell you that love and painful torture are
not twins? The God you profess to worship cannot be both of those
personalities. If He inflicts painful torture on His misbehaving
children He makes the Devil super happy.
Try studying the other side of the coin.
I follow Jesus, there is only one way. Not many. A fair judge puts people to
death, not out of hatred but because of the Law. God hates sin. Those who dwell
in sin, are sinners. Not of the free.
Post by JamesPost by RobertThose who deny His First begotten Son
go there since they deny Him as God, a Divine one. They all will suffer
according to their deeds. Every JW who denies Jesus as God and Dies in that
state will dwell there forever and ever, yet they will all hate each other
for their is no love to be found in that place. Each will know the truth of
Jesus
as God, since they will ALL bend the knee to him who is worthy of worship,
as will the atheist, etc.
You have it backwards. To worship Jesus is worshipping the creation
rather than the one who created. (Col 1:15)
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are
in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or
principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the
firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Again you speak with a lying and deceptive spirit. Straight from the pits of
hell. Why do you invite such a one to take up residence within you? Renounce
him straight away lest you die in your sin and be bound for eternity.
Post by JamesPost by RobertPost by JamesThe Bible says God is love. (1 John 4:8) But LOVE and TORTURE are not
bedfellows.
The god of this world is full of hatred. And will be tortured forever along
with all his willing partners. Eternal Torment in the Lake of Fire, and
eternal Love for those that are heaven bound.
Your choice as to whom to follow.
I follow the God of the Bible,(Ps 83:18) and His Son, Jesus Christ.
The why do you deny Him? Like Father, Like Son.
Post by JamesPost by RobertPost by JamesPost by RobertPost by JamesPost by Michael McLeanFortunately, He has in God the Son! :-). Not made, not created, not a
raised-up man, but eternal God Himself in human flesh, but not bound by
the flesh seen in the rising from the death of the flesh.
Jesus died. God always lived. Thus cannot be the same person: Christ
His body died.
So did his mind. He was a bonafide real human. and when the body died,
so did his mind. But he was resurrected with a spirit body 3 days
later, and God restored his previous spirit personality. 1 Pet 3:18,
I have already shown you that he was resurrected with a body of Flesh and
bone, who ate with his brethren (in this post) He never lost his Spiritual
Position,
he was always God, but set aside his attributes that he might be the Lamb of
God. His personality was always the same.
Then please explain this: Mt 24:36,
"But of that day and hour no one knows, neither the angels of heaven,
nor the Son, but the Father alone." (NAB)
If you say you already have, please humor me and comment again.
'Did you read it? If so what exactly did it say? Like millions of others you
read it and do not understand. "That day and hour"? Simple. Isn't it.
Post by JamesPost by RobertPost by James"...He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit."
“Christ suffered and died for sins once and for all—the innocent for the
guilty—to bring you near to God by his body being put to death and by being
raised to life by the Spirit. He went in the spiritual realm and made a
proclamation to the spirits in prison because of their disobedience of long
ago. For during the time of Noah God patiently waited while the ark was being
prepared, but only a few were brought safely through the floodwaters: a
total of eight souls.” (1Pe 3:18-20)
What's the matter? Afraid to quote the whole scripture in context?
You have your way of quoting Scripture, I have my way.
Yes, deceiver, I have been pointing that out to you constantly, and showing you
the full truth in the context of which it was written and given by the Heavenly
Father.
You follow the way of the serpent speaking to Eve.
Post by JamesPost by RobertJesus is the perfect example of what a human can be who follows God and is
filled with His Spirit.
We cannot at this time reach Jesus level of perfection. We have to
wait on that.
You never will, nor can you. Unless you believe in Jesus as God, and ask him to
be a part of your life.
Post by JamesSincerely James