Discussion:
Paul and James
(too old to reply)
Ted
2022-12-31 05:55:15 UTC
Permalink
The author of the epistle of James wants you to think he's Jesus's
brother, but the content of his writing rats him out as a liar. He
opposes what he believes are Paul's teachings on faith and works,
which he read in Ephesians, which is another forgery written by a
liar claiming to Paul around 85 CE, over 20 years after the
historical James was martyred (and also well after Paul's death).

Although we know that Jesus's brother James insisted that Jewish
Christians continue observing the Mosaic Law, the author of this
epistle never mentions it. When he says "works", he instead means
good deeds, not the Law, which was what the real Paul referred to as
"works" in his genuine epistles.

But the real knee slapper is that the epistle author evidences
familiarity with the Septuagint, whereas Jesus's brother James was
illiterate or, if he'd ever learned to read at all, it would've been
Hebrew, not Greek, for as Josephus explains, the Septuagint was
employed in neither Judah nor Galilee, which synagogues continued
using the Hebrew scriptures. (Josephus, btw, though he'd developed a
measure of fluency in Greek, never cared much for the language.)

In one of the genuine Pauline epistles, Galatians, in verse 1:19,
Paul reports that he met Jesus's brother James when he was in
Jerusalem. (You see, nobody had ever bothered informing either one of
them that Jesus never existed as a real person.)
Dr. Who
2022-12-31 07:34:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted
The author of the epistle of James wants you to think he's Jesus's
brother, but the content of his writing rats him out as a liar. He
opposes what he believes are Paul's teachings on faith and works,
which he read in Ephesians, which is another forgery written by a
liar claiming to Paul around 85 CE, over 20 years after the
historical James was martyred (and also well after Paul's death).
Although we know that Jesus's brother James insisted that Jewish
Christians continue observing the Mosaic Law, the author of this
epistle never mentions it. When he says "works", he instead means
good deeds, not the Law, which was what the real Paul referred to as
"works" in his genuine epistles.
But the real knee slapper is that the epistle author evidences
familiarity with the Septuagint, whereas Jesus's brother James was
illiterate or, if he'd ever learned to read at all, it would've been
Hebrew, not Greek, for as Josephus explains, the Septuagint was
employed in neither Judah nor Galilee, which synagogues continued
using the Hebrew scriptures. (Josephus, btw, though he'd developed a
measure of fluency in Greek, never cared much for the language.)
In one of the genuine Pauline epistles, Galatians, in verse 1:19,
Paul reports that he met Jesus's brother James when he was in
Jerusalem. (You see, nobody had ever bothered informing either one of
them that Jesus never existed as a real person.)
Too bad you do not source your material. So it comes across as an opinion
piece. Paul heard the voice of the Lord and saw him in the desert, and
perhaps one of the many times he was killed by the Jews, and then raised from
the dead by the believers. Josephus need of the Lord by those who had seen
him as well as the lasting effects he left behind. And his reputation.

Jewish kids were educated in their synagogues. Jerusalem was an international
hub of business travelers so some familiarity of foreign languages there was
necessary. There were many men named Jesus in the day of Jesus. Yet Jesus the
Christ stood out due to his work of God.

The LXX was written by the priests, as their language was disappearing, and
most Jews lived in foreign lands that only spoke koine Greek. And in Israel
they were concerned about those that were afar off would wander away from the
religion of Israel, which they all frequently did over the centuries, even in
the Land of Israel.

Jesus affected the entire world even unto this day. Even your own. :) as he
is on your mind.

In regard to the book of James there is this tidbit of information from Dr.
McGee.

3. James, the Lord's brother. He was a son of Mary and of Joseph, which made
him a half brother of the Lord Jesus. In Mat 13:55 we read: “Is not this
the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James,
and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?” In the beginning, the Lord's brethren did
not believe in Him at all, but the time came when James became head of the
church at Jerusalem. In Acts 15 James seems to have presided over that great
council in Jerusalem. At least he made the summation and brought the council
to a decision under the leading of the Holy Spirit. I believe it was this
James whom Paul referred to in Gal 2:9, “And when James, Cephas, and John,
who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they
gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto
the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.” This James is the man whom we
believe to be the author of this epistle.

This epistle was written about A.D. 45–50. There have been those who have
said that James wrote his epistle to combat the teachings of Paul; they argue
that James emphasizes works while Paul emphasizes faith. However, the
earliest of Paul's epistles, 1 Thessalonians, was written about A.D. 52–56.
Therefore, even Paul's first epistle was not written until after the Epistle
of James, which was the first book of the New Testament to be written.

It is clear that James' theme is not works, but faith—the same as Paul's
theme, but James emphasizes what faith produces. Both James and Paul speak a
great deal of faith and works. They give us the two aspects of justification
by faith, both of which are clear in the writings of Paul:
unknown
2022-12-31 17:36:48 UTC
Permalink
Too bad you do not source your material. So itcomes across as an opinion
piece.
Then followss neither the opinion of the poster but the unattributed work
taken from another person. Which of the two is a sin?
Paul heard the voice of the Lord and saw him in the desert, and perhaps
one of the many times he was killed by the Jews, and then raised from the
dead by the believers.
Hmm, is that "opinion", unattributed use or pure fairy tale, where might
one find that info confirmed on the web about Paul's mutiple deathes?
Josephus need of the Lord by those who had seen him as well as the lasting
effects he left behind. And his reputation.
Appears as pure unattributed use of another's work, no? As do the multiple
sections of unattributed info that follows not reposted here.
Dr. Who
2022-12-31 18:37:40 UTC
Permalink
There was no intent to scold her, just a comment, since I would have loved to
follow up his info.
Why you insert yourself into this is beyond me.
Post by unknown
Too bad you do not source your material. So itcomes across as an opinion
piece.
Then followss neither the opinion of the poster but the unattributed work
taken from another person. Which of the two is a sin?
Neither one, but your contentiousness is.
Post by unknown
Paul heard the voice of the Lord and saw him in the desert, and perhaps
one of the many times he was killed by the Jews, and then raised from the
dead by the believers.
This was discussed in a previous thread I posted recently here in a reply, I
don't remember to whom, but it was supported with scripture. The part about
seeing Jesus.

The part about him being dead I do not remember discussing with anyone, but
Ted is far more knowledgeable in regards to the scripture than yourself. If
he needs the sources I would be happy to share.
Post by unknown
Hmm, is that "opinion", unattributed use or pure fairy tale, where might
one find that info confirmed on the web about Paul's mutiple deathes?
In the NT.
Post by unknown
Josephus need of the Lord by those who had seen him as well as the lasting
effects he left behind. And his reputation.
Program substituted "need" for "Knew".
Post by unknown
Appears as pure unattributed use of another's work, no? As do the multiple
sections of unattributed info that follows not reposted here.
Nope, it wasn't.

May your new year all be as pleasant as this post of yours.
unknown
2022-12-31 20:09:52 UTC
Permalink
One poster posted without attribution as though it is his individual info;
Post by Dr. Who
perhaps one of the many times he was killed by the Jews, and then raised
fromthe dead by the believers.
We asked for a web source but none was provided because of a long history
of leaving the impression some unattributed info was his own. Just some
cryptic mention of scripture, sure; go for it; which bible source on the
web?.
Dr. Who
2022-12-31 21:08:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
One poster posted without attribution as though it is his individual info;
Post by Dr. Who
perhaps one of the many times he was killed by the Jews, and then raised
fromthe dead by the believers.
We asked for a web source but none was provided because of a long history
of leaving the impression some unattributed info was his own. Just some
cryptic mention of scripture, sure; go for it; which bible source on the
web?.
You all might have asked for a web source on his death, but as I said it is
in the NT.

I have no clue about what the web claims on this.

A full 98% of my source material is from here in my Home Office.
unknown
2022-12-31 22:41:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr. Who
Post by unknown
One poster posted without attribution as though it is his individual info;
Post by Dr. Who
perhaps one of the many times he was killed by the Jews, and then raised
fromthe dead by the believers.
We asked for a web source but none was provided because of a long history
of leaving the impression some unattributed info was his own. Just some
cryptic mention of scripture, sure; go for it; which bible source on the
web?.
When all else fails, try obfuscation. A web source was requested because
the poster is not a reliable source of such info. The "web" has no

independent opinion, it is just a dipository of info. As for its in the
"NT", did someone say criptic and useless and trying to avoid the question?
Post by Dr. Who
You all might have asked for a web source on his death, but as I said it is
in the NT.
Oh dear, unable to answer it we get restating the question, no one asked
about the event of his death but of the claims above and its source.

Actually the NT does not describe his death, it just says he was on his way
to trial in rome.with no info as to outcome. What we know about it is from
the early church fathers.
Dr. Who
2022-12-31 23:00:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr. Who
Post by unknown
One poster posted without attribution as though it is his individual info;
Post by Dr. Who
perhaps one of the many times he was killed by the Jews, and then raised
fromthe dead by the believers.
We asked for a web source but none was provided because of a long history
of leaving the impression some unattributed info was his own. Just some
cryptic mention of scripture, sure; go for it; which bible source on the
web?.
When all else fails, try obfuscation. A web source was requested because
the poster is not a reliable source of such info. The "web" has no
independent opinion, it is just a dipository of info. As for its in the
"NT", did someone say criptic and useless and trying to avoid the question?
Post by Dr. Who
You all might have asked for a web source on his death, but as I said it is
in the NT.
Oh dear, unable to answer it we get restating the question, no one asked
about the event of his death but of the claims above and its source.
Actually the NT does not describe his death, it just says he was on his way
to trial in rome.with no info as to outcome. What we know about it is from
the early church fathers.
I was not speaking of his final death, and that would have been obvious to a
person with typical reading comprehension. Again, your divination skills
failed you.
teslaStinker
2023-01-01 03:14:59 UTC
Permalink
Your another kook, just like Greg. .. You do not interpret
anything correctly as a catholic cause your to caught up in lies
by the false kings who created the Bible you read. Do not say
somebody did not you the truth heretic, and even prove it with
true Scripture. Go ahead keep listening to the devil and watch
where it gets you.... I Quote Matthew to you, true Bible.
Chapter 13

53 And it came to pass: when Jesus had finished these parables, he
passed from thence. 54 And coming into his own country, he
taught them in their synagogues, so that they wondered and said:
How came this man by this wisdom and miracles? 55 Is not this
the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary, and his
brethren James, and Joseph, and Simon, and Jude: 56 And his
sisters, are they not all with us? Whence therefore hath he all
these things? 57 And they were scandalized in his regard. But
Jesus said to them: A prophet is not without honour, save in his
own country, and in his own house. 58 And he wrought not many
miracles there, because of their unbelief.


He even says you would scandalized the whole thing, not
understanding th Ed meaning of the word brethren that are
following Him. It does not mean ass hole that they were born of
the same woman. You jack ass heretic
--
Daniel
teslaStinker
2023-01-01 03:33:04 UTC
Permalink
Tell me something Azz hole. Why would you a protestant heretic
full of apostasy, believ ing fake Bibles, that Jesus would give
you another miracle?
--
Daniel
Dr. Who
2023-01-01 04:33:16 UTC
Permalink
author of the epistle of James wants you to think he's Jesus's> brother,
but the content of his writing rats him out as a liar. He> opposes what he
believes are Paul's teachings on faith and works,> which he read in
Ephesians, which is another forgery written by a> liar claiming to Paul
around 85 CE, over 20 years after the> historical James was martyred (and
also well after Paul's death).>> Although we know that Jesus's brother
James insisted that Jewish> Christians continue observing the Mosaic Law,
the author of this> epistle never mentions it. When he says "works", he
instead means> good deeds, not the Law, which was what the real Paul
referred to as> "works" in his genuine epistles.>> But the real knee
slapper is that the epistle author evidences> familiarity with the
Septuagint, whereas Jesus's brother James was> illiterate or, if he'd ever
learned to read at all, it would've been> Hebrew, not Greek, for as
Josephus explains, the Septuagint was> employed in neither Judah nor
Galilee, which synagogues continued> using the Hebrew scriptures.
(Josephus, btw, though he'd developed a> measure of fluency in Greek,
never cared much for the language.)>> In one of the genuine Pauline
epistles, Galatians, in verse 1:19,> Paul reports that he met Jesus's
brother James when he was in> Jerusalem. (You see, nobody had ever bothered
informing either one of> them that Jesus never existed as a real
person.)Too bad you do not source your material. So it comes across as an
opinion piece. Paul heard the voice of the Lord and saw him in the desert,
and perhaps one of the many times he was killed by the Jews, and then
raised from the dead by the believers. Josephus need of the Lord by those
who had seen him as well as the lasting effects he left behind. And his
reputation.Jewish kids were educated in their synagogues. Jerusalem was an
international hub of business travelers so some familiarity of foreign
languages there was necessary. There were many men named Jesus in the day
of Jesus. Yet Jesus the Christ stood out due to his work of God.The LXX was
written by the priests, as their language was disappearing, and most Jews
lived in foreign lands that only spoke koine Greek. And in Israel they were
concerned about those that were afar off would wander away from the
religion of Israel, which they all frequently did over the centuries, even
in the Land of Israel.Jesus affected the entire world even unto this day.
Even your own. :) as he is on your mind.In regard to the book of James
there is this tidbit of information from Dr. McGee.3. James, the Lord's
brother. He was a son of Mary and of Joseph, which made him a half brother
of the Lord Jesus. In Mat 13:55 we read: ?Is not this the carpenter's son?
is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and
Simon, and Judas?? In the beginning, the Lord's brethren did not believe in
Him at all, but the time came when James became head of the church at
Jerusalem. In Acts 15 James seems to have presided over that great council
in Jerusalem. At least he made the summation and brought the council to a
decision under the leading of the Holy Spirit. I believe it was this James
whom Paul referred to in Gal 2:9, ?And when James, Cephas, and John, who
seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave
to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto
the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.? This James is the man whom we
believe to be the author of this epistle.This epistle was written about
A.D. 45?50. There have been those who have said that James wrote his
epistle to combat the teachings of Paul; they argue that James emphasizes
works while Paul emphasizes faith. However, the earliest of Paul's
epistles, 1 Thessalonians, was written about A.D. 52?56. Therefore, even
Paul's first epistle was not written until after the Epistle of James,
which was the first book of the New Testament to be written.It is clear
that James' theme is not works, but faith?the same as Paul's theme, but
James emphasizes what faith produces. Both James and Paul speak a great
deal of faith and works. They give us the two aspects of justification by
faith, both of which are clear in the writings of Paul:Your another kook,
just like Greg. .. You do not interpret anything correctly as a catholic
cause your to caught up in lies by the false kings who created the Bible
you read. Do not say somebody did not you the truth heretic, and even prove
it with true Scripture. Go ahead keep listening to the devil and watch
where it gets you.... I Quote Matthew to you, true Bible. Chapter 1353 And
it came to pass: when Jesus had finished these parables, he passed from
thence. 54 And coming into his own country, he taught them in their
synagogues, so that they wondered and said: How came this man by this
wisdom and miracles? 55 Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother
called Mary, and his brethren James, and Joseph, and Simon, and Jude: 56
And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence therefore hath he all
these things? 57 And they were scandalized in his regard. But Jesus said to
them: A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his
own house. 58 And he wrought not many miracles there, because of their
unbelief.He even says you would scandalized the whole thing, not
understanding th Ed meaning of the word brethren that are following Him. It
does not mean ass hole that they were born of the same woman. You jack ass
heretic -- Daniel
Tell me something Azz hole. Why would you a protestant heretic
full of apostasy, believ ing fake Bibles, that Jesus would give
you another miracle?
You are replying to yourself. And I see that you are a doubter. And James
said that you should not expect anything. :(
Dr. Who
2023-01-01 04:30:29 UTC
Permalink
On Dec 30, 2022, Ted wrote(in
the epistle of James wants you to think he's Jesus's> brother, but the
content of his writing rats him out as a liar. He> opposes what he
believes are Paul's teachings on faith and works,> which he read in
Ephesians, which is another forgery written by a> liar claiming to Paul
around 85 CE, over 20 years after the> historical James was martyred (and
also well after Paul's death).>> Although we know that Jesus's brother
James insisted that Jewish> Christians continue observing the Mosaic Law,
the author of this> epistle never mentions it. When he says "works", he
instead means> good deeds, not the Law, which was what the real Paul
referred to as> "works" in his genuine epistles.>> But the real knee
slapper is that the epistle author evidences> familiarity with the
Septuagint, whereas Jesus's brother James was> illiterate or, if he'd ever
learned to read at all, it would've been> Hebrew, not Greek, for as
Josephus explains, the Septuagint was> employed in neither Judah nor
Galilee, which synagogues continued> using the Hebrew scriptures.
(Josephus, btw, though he'd developed a> measure of fluency in Greek,
never cared much for the language.)>> In one of the genuine Pauline
epistles, Galatians, in verse 1:19,> Paul reports that he met Jesus's
brother James when he was in> Jerusalem. (You see, nobody had ever bothered
informing either one of> them that Jesus never existed as a real
person.)Too bad you do not source your material. So it comes across as an
opinion piece. Paul heard the voice of the Lord and saw him in the desert,
and perhaps one of the many times he was killed by the Jews, and then
raised from the dead by the believers. Josephus need of the Lord by those
who had seen him as well as the lasting effects he left behind. And his
reputation.Jewish kids were educated in their synagogues. Jerusalem was an
international hub of business travelers so some familiarity of foreign
languages there was necessary. There were many men named Jesus in the day
of Jesus. Yet Jesus the Christ stood out due to his work of God.The LXX was
written by the priests, as their language was disappearing, and most Jews
lived in foreign lands that only spoke koine Greek. And in Israel they were
concerned about those that were afar off would wander away from the
religion of Israel, which they all frequently did over the centuries, even
in the Land of Israel.Jesus affected the entire world even unto this day.
Even your own. :) as he is on your mind.In regard to the book of James
there is this tidbit of information from Dr. McGee.3. James, the Lord's
brother. He was a son of Mary and of Joseph, which made him a half brother
of the Lord Jesus. In Mat 13:55 we read: ?Is not this the carpenter's son?
is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and
Simon, and Judas?? In the beginning, the Lord's brethren did not believe in
Him at all, but the time came when James became head of the church at
Jerusalem. In Acts 15 James seems to have presided over that great council
in Jerusalem. At least he made the summation and brought the council to a
decision under the leading of the Holy Spirit. I believe it was this James
whom Paul referred to in Gal 2:9, ?And when James, Cephas, and John, who
seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave
to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto
the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.? This James is the man whom we
believe to be the author of this epistle.This epistle was written about
A.D. 45?50. There have been those who have said that James wrote his
epistle to combat the teachings of Paul; they argue that James emphasizes
works while Paul emphasizes faith. However, the earliest of Paul's
epistles, 1 Thessalonians, was written about A.D. 52?56. Therefore, even
Paul's first epistle was not written until after the Epistle of James,
which was the first book of the New Testament to be written.It is clear
that James' theme is not works, but faith?the same as Paul's theme, but
James emphasizes what faith produces. Both James and Paul speak a great
deal of faith and works. They give us the two aspects of justification by
Your another kook, just like Greg. .. You do not interpret
anything correctly as a catholic cause your to caught up in lies
by the false kings who created the Bible you read. Do not say
somebody did not you the truth heretic, and even prove it with
true Scripture. Go ahead keep listening to the devil and watch
where it gets you.... I Quote Matthew to you, true Bible.
Chapter 13
I am not a catholic. Never have been and never will be.

Your post editing of what you are replying to is stuff from Ted and I that
you compiled into one post, and that attributed to Ted, What has Matthew to
do with what you replied too?
53 And it came to pass: when Jesus had finished these parables, he
passed from thence. 54 And coming into his own country, he
How came this man by this wisdom and miracles? 55 Is not this
the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary, and his
brethren James, and Joseph, and Simon, and Jude: 56 And his
sisters, are they not all with us? Whence therefore hath he all
these things? 57 And they were scandalized in his regard. But
Jesus said to them: A prophet is not without honour, save in his
own country, and in his own house. 58 And he wrought not many
miracles there, because of their unbelief.
He even says you would scandalized the whole thing, not
understanding th Ed meaning of the word brethren that are
following Him. It does not mean ass hole that they were born of
the same woman. You jack ass heretic
You not only do not know to whom you are replying, but what you are replying
too.

Let's see if you have the smarts to unravel the mess that you created above,
and see if you can then make any sense of it all. I'd bet you will just
cower.
Ted
2023-01-01 03:50:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
The author of the epistle of James wants you to think he's Jesus's
brother, but the content of his writing rats him out as a liar. He
opposes what he believes are Paul's teachings on faith and works,
which he read in Ephesians, which is another forgery written by a
liar claiming to Paul around 85 CE, over 20 years after the
historical James was martyred (and also well after Paul's death).
Although we know that Jesus's brother James insisted that Jewish
Christians continue observing the Mosaic Law, the author of this
epistle never mentions it. When he says "works", he instead means
good deeds, not the Law, which was what the real Paul referred to as
"works" in his genuine epistles.
But the real knee slapper is that the epistle author evidences
familiarity with the Septuagint, whereas Jesus's brother James was
illiterate or, if he'd ever learned to read at all, it would've been
Hebrew, not Greek, for as Josephus explains, the Septuagint was
employed in neither Judah nor Galilee, which synagogues continued
using the Hebrew scriptures. (Josephus, btw, though he'd
developed a
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
measure of fluency in Greek, never cared much for the language.)
In one of the genuine Pauline epistles, Galatians, in verse 1:19,
Paul reports that he met Jesus's brother James when he was in
Jerusalem. (You see, nobody had ever bothered informing either one of
them that Jesus never existed as a real person.)
Too bad you do not source your material. So it comes across as an opinion
piece.
Because I never remember where I read anything, but it would be easy
enough for me to find if requested.
Post by Dr. Who
Paul heard the voice of the Lord and saw him in the desert, and
perhaps one of the many times he was killed by the Jews, and then raised from
the dead by the believers. Josephus need of the Lord by those who had seen
him as well as the lasting effects he left behind. And his
reputation.
Post by Dr. Who
Jewish kids were educated in their synagogues. Jerusalem was an international
hub of business travelers so some familiarity of foreign languages there was
necessary. There were many men named Jesus in the day of Jesus. Yet Jesus the
Christ stood out due to his work of God.
The LXX was written by the priests, as their language was
disappearing, and
Post by Dr. Who
most Jews lived in foreign lands that only spoke koine Greek. And in Israel
they were concerned about those that were afar off would wander away from the
religion of Israel, which they all frequently did over the
centuries, even in
Post by Dr. Who
the Land of Israel.
Interesting. Thanks for that information, Robert.
Post by Dr. Who
Jesus affected the entire world even unto this day. Even your own. :) as he
is on your mind.
In regard to the book of James there is this tidbit of information from Dr.
McGee.
3. James, the Lord's brother. He was a son of Mary and of Joseph, which made
him a half brother of the Lord Jesus. In Mat 13:55 we read: “Is not this
the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his
brethren, James,
Post by Dr. Who
and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?” In the beginning, the Lord's brethren did
not believe in Him at all, but the time came when James became head of the
church at Jerusalem. In Acts 15 James seems to have presided over that great
council in Jerusalem. At least he made the summation and brought the council
to a decision under the leading of the Holy Spirit. I believe it was this
James whom Paul referred to in Gal 2:9, “And when James, Cephas, and John,
who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they
gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we
should go unto
Post by Dr. Who
the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.” This James is the man whom we
believe to be the author of this epistle.
McGee is hardly a credible Bible scholar. No fundy is credible.
Post by Dr. Who
This epistle was written about A.D. 45–50. There have been those who have
said that James wrote his epistle to combat the teachings of Paul; they argue
that James emphasizes works while Paul emphasizes faith. However, the
earliest of Paul's epistles, 1 Thessalonians, was written about A.D. 52–56.
Therefore, even Paul's first epistle was not written until after the Epistle
of James, which was the first book of the New Testament to be
written.
Post by Dr. Who
It is clear that James' theme is not works, but faith—the same as Paul's
theme, but James emphasizes what faith produces. Both James and Paul speak a
great deal of faith and works. They give us the two aspects of
justification
I agree that the author of James isn't opposing Paul, but rather what
Paul's teachings had been misinterpreted to mean and likely also what
he mistakenly thought they meant. He was writing, at the earliest,
very late in the 1st century.

But you're saying that Jesus's illiterate brother James really wrote
the epistle around 45 CE. Meaning that, during the twelve years after
he became a Christian and was busy overseeing the church at
Jerusalem, he attended university, not to study Hebrew, which was the
language used in Judean and Galilean synagogues, but rather Greek so
that he could study the Septuagint and write an intelligent letter in
Greek.

And, although we know he insisted that Jewish Christians continued
following the Mosaic Law, he never bothered mentioning it once in the
letter. And that it only appeared he referenced Ephesians, but he
couldn't have because it hadn't yet been written.

That's your claim.
Dr. Who
2023-01-01 04:54:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
The author of the epistle of James wants you to think he's Jesus's
brother, but the content of his writing rats him out as a liar. He
opposes what he believes are Paul's teachings on faith and works,
which he read in Ephesians, which is another forgery written by a
liar claiming to Paul around 85 CE, over 20 years after the
historical James was martyred (and also well after Paul's death).
Although we know that Jesus's brother James insisted that Jewish
Christians continue observing the Mosaic Law, the author of this
epistle never mentions it. When he says "works", he instead means
good deeds, not the Law, which was what the real Paul referred to
as
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
"works" in his genuine epistles.
But the real knee slapper is that the epistle author evidences
familiarity with the Septuagint, whereas Jesus's brother James was
illiterate or, if he'd ever learned to read at all, it would've
been
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Hebrew, not Greek, for as Josephus explains, the Septuagint was
employed in neither Judah nor Galilee, which synagogues continued
using the Hebrew scriptures. (Josephus, btw, though he'd
developed a
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
measure of fluency in Greek, never cared much for the language.)
In one of the genuine Pauline epistles, Galatians, in verse 1:19,
Paul reports that he met Jesus's brother James when he was in
Jerusalem. (You see, nobody had ever bothered informing either
one of
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
them that Jesus never existed as a real person.)
Too bad you do not source your material. So it comes across as an
opinion
Post by Dr. Who
piece.
Because I never remember where I read anything, but it would be easy
enough for me to find if requested.
It would be helpful in that it can add to the discussion sometimes so as to
sort things our and add depth to the understandings for each of us.
Post by Ted
Post by Dr. Who
Paul heard the voice of the Lord and saw him in the desert, and
perhaps one of the many times he was killed by the Jews, and then
raised from
Post by Dr. Who
the dead by the believers. Josephus need of the Lord by those who
had seen
Post by Dr. Who
him as well as the lasting effects he left behind. And his
reputation.
Post by Dr. Who
Jewish kids were educated in their synagogues. Jerusalem was an
international
Post by Dr. Who
hub of business travelers so some familiarity of foreign languages
there was
Post by Dr. Who
necessary. There were many men named Jesus in the day of Jesus. Yet
Jesus the
Post by Dr. Who
Christ stood out due to his work of God.
The LXX was written by the priests, as their language was
disappearing, and
Post by Dr. Who
most Jews lived in foreign lands that only spoke koine Greek. And
in Israel
Post by Dr. Who
they were concerned about those that were afar off would wander
away from the
Post by Dr. Who
religion of Israel, which they all frequently did over the
centuries, even in
Post by Dr. Who
the Land of Israel.
Interesting. Thanks for that information, Robert.
Post by Dr. Who
Jesus affected the entire world even unto this day. Even your own.
Post by Ted
as he
is on your mind.
In regard to the book of James there is this tidbit of information
from Dr.
Post by Dr. Who
McGee.
3. James, the Lord's brother. He was a son of Mary and of Joseph,
which made
Post by Dr. Who
him a half brother of the Lord Jesus. In Mat 13:55 we read: “Is not
this
Post by Dr. Who
the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his
brethren, James,
Post by Dr. Who
and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?” In the beginning, the Lord's
brethren did
Post by Dr. Who
not believe in Him at all, but the time came when James became head
of the
Post by Dr. Who
church at Jerusalem. In Acts 15 James seems to have presided over
that great
Post by Dr. Who
council in Jerusalem. At least he made the summation and brought
the council
Post by Dr. Who
to a decision under the leading of the Holy Spirit. I believe it
was this
Post by Dr. Who
James whom Paul referred to in Gal 2:9, “And when James, Cephas,
and John,
Post by Dr. Who
who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto
me, they
Post by Dr. Who
gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we
should go unto
Post by Dr. Who
the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.” This James is the man
whom we
Post by Dr. Who
believe to be the author of this epistle.
McGee is hardly a credible Bible scholar. No fundy is credible.
Post by Dr. Who
This epistle was written about A.D. 45–50. There have been those
who have
Post by Dr. Who
said that James wrote his epistle to combat the teachings of Paul;
they argue
Post by Dr. Who
that James emphasizes works while Paul emphasizes faith. However,
the
Post by Dr. Who
earliest of Paul's epistles, 1 Thessalonians, was written about
A.D. 52–56.
Post by Dr. Who
Therefore, even Paul's first epistle was not written until after
the Epistle
Post by Dr. Who
of James, which was the first book of the New Testament to be
written.
Post by Dr. Who
It is clear that James' theme is not works, but faith—the same as
Paul's
Post by Dr. Who
theme, but James emphasizes what faith produces. Both James and
Paul speak a
Post by Dr. Who
great deal of faith and works. They give us the two aspects of
justification
I agree that the author of James isn't opposing Paul, but rather what
Paul's teachings had been misinterpreted to mean and likely also what
he mistakenly thought they meant. He was writing, at the earliest,
very late in the 1st century.
They were not writing to compliment one another, nor to instruct one another,
other than the time that Paul took Peter to task for catering to the Jews and
their old covenant. All the while Peter was eating like a gentile unless he
knew Jews were around, then he followed the old ways, Paul took Peter to task
even after the meeting in Jerusalem with James, the brother of the Lord.

“But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.”
(Gal 1:19, KJV)
Post by Ted
the epistle around 45 CE. Meaning that, during the twelve years after
he became a Christian and was busy overseeing the church at
Jerusalem, he attended university, not to study Hebrew, which was the
language used in Judean and Galilean synagogues, but rather Greek so
that he could study the Septuagint and write an intelligent letter in
Greek.
James, like his brothers and most all Jewish young men learned at their local
synagogues. They could read Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic. As well as speak the
languages at least for those around Jerusalem.
Post by Ted
And, although we know he insisted that Jewish Christians continued
following the Mosaic Law, he never bothered mentioning it once in the
letter. And that it only appeared he referenced Ephesians, but he
couldn't have because it hadn't yet been written.
James, after believing that Jesus was the Messiah, because of his
resurrection, also followed then the teachings of Jesus, and accepted what
Jesus taught and what Isaiah prophesied about, that Jesus fulfilled all the
law, and that those in Christ were under a New Covenant.

James as a leader in Jerusalem would not have been if he had been as ignorant
as you claimed. James' mother Mary kept what happened to Jesus, and the works
that he did, close to her heart, as was stated many times in the Gospels, and
more than likely that was why Luke interviewed here and discussed the life of
Jesus with her, before he wrote the book of Luke.
Post by Ted
That's your claim.
Not mine, its historical
Ted
2023-01-01 19:52:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
The author of the epistle of James wants you to think he's Jesus's
brother, but the content of his writing rats him out as a liar. He
opposes what he believes are Paul's teachings on faith and works,
which he read in Ephesians, which is another forgery written by a
liar claiming to Paul around 85 CE, over 20 years after the
historical James was martyred (and also well after Paul's death).
Although we know that Jesus's brother James insisted that Jewish
Christians continue observing the Mosaic Law, the author of this
epistle never mentions it. When he says "works", he instead means
good deeds, not the Law, which was what the real Paul
referred to
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
as
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
"works" in his genuine epistles.
But the real knee slapper is that the epistle author evidences
familiarity with the Septuagint, whereas Jesus's brother
James was
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
illiterate or, if he'd ever learned to read at all, it
would've
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
been
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Hebrew, not Greek, for as Josephus explains, the Septuagint was
employed in neither Judah nor Galilee, which synagogues
continued
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
using the Hebrew scriptures. (Josephus, btw, though he'd
developed a
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
measure of fluency in Greek, never cared much for the
language.)
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
In one of the genuine Pauline epistles, Galatians, in verse 1:19,
Paul reports that he met Jesus's brother James when he was in
Jerusalem. (You see, nobody had ever bothered informing either
one of
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
them that Jesus never existed as a real person.)
Too bad you do not source your material. So it comes across as an
opinion
Post by Dr. Who
piece.
Because I never remember where I read anything, but it would be easy
enough for me to find if requested.
It would be helpful in that it can add to the discussion sometimes so as to
sort things our and add depth to the understandings for each of us.
Post by Ted
Post by Dr. Who
Paul heard the voice of the Lord and saw him in the desert, and
perhaps one of the many times he was killed by the Jews, and then
raised from
Post by Dr. Who
the dead by the believers. Josephus need of the Lord by those who
had seen
Post by Dr. Who
him as well as the lasting effects he left behind. And his
reputation.
Post by Dr. Who
Jewish kids were educated in their synagogues. Jerusalem was an
international
Post by Dr. Who
hub of business travelers so some familiarity of foreign
languages
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
there was
Post by Dr. Who
necessary. There were many men named Jesus in the day of Jesus. Yet
Jesus the
Post by Dr. Who
Christ stood out due to his work of God.
The LXX was written by the priests, as their language was
disappearing, and
Post by Dr. Who
most Jews lived in foreign lands that only spoke koine Greek. And
in Israel
Post by Dr. Who
they were concerned about those that were afar off would wander
away from the
Post by Dr. Who
religion of Israel, which they all frequently did over the
centuries, even in
Post by Dr. Who
the Land of Israel.
Interesting. Thanks for that information, Robert.
Post by Dr. Who
Jesus affected the entire world even unto this day. Even your own.
Post by Ted
as he
is on your mind.
In regard to the book of James there is this tidbit of
information
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
from Dr.
Post by Dr. Who
McGee.
3. James, the Lord's brother. He was a son of Mary and of
Joseph,
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
which made
Post by Dr. Who
him a half brother of the Lord Jesus. In Mat 13:55 we read: “Is not
this
Post by Dr. Who
the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his
brethren, James,
Post by Dr. Who
and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?” In the beginning, the Lord's
brethren did
Post by Dr. Who
not believe in Him at all, but the time came when James became head
of the
Post by Dr. Who
church at Jerusalem. In Acts 15 James seems to have presided over
that great
Post by Dr. Who
council in Jerusalem. At least he made the summation and brought
the council
Post by Dr. Who
to a decision under the leading of the Holy Spirit. I believe it
was this
Post by Dr. Who
James whom Paul referred to in Gal 2:9, “And when James, Cephas,
and John,
Post by Dr. Who
who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto
me, they
Post by Dr. Who
gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we
should go unto
Post by Dr. Who
the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.” This James is the man
whom we
Post by Dr. Who
believe to be the author of this epistle.
McGee is hardly a credible Bible scholar. No fundy is credible.
Post by Dr. Who
This epistle was written about A.D. 45–50. There have been those
who have
Post by Dr. Who
said that James wrote his epistle to combat the teachings of Paul;
they argue
Post by Dr. Who
that James emphasizes works while Paul emphasizes faith.
However,
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
the
Post by Dr. Who
earliest of Paul's epistles, 1 Thessalonians, was written about
A.D. 52–56.
Post by Dr. Who
Therefore, even Paul's first epistle was not written until after
the Epistle
Post by Dr. Who
of James, which was the first book of the New Testament to be
written.
Post by Dr. Who
It is clear that James' theme is not works, but faith—the same as
Paul's
Post by Dr. Who
theme, but James emphasizes what faith produces. Both James and
Paul speak a
Post by Dr. Who
great deal of faith and works. They give us the two aspects of
justification
I agree that the author of James isn't opposing Paul, but rather what
Paul's teachings had been misinterpreted to mean and likely also what
he mistakenly thought they meant. He was writing, at the earliest,
very late in the 1st century.
They were not writing to compliment one another, nor to instruct one another,
other than the time that Paul took Peter to task for catering to the Jews and
their old covenant. All the while Peter was eating like a gentile unless he
knew Jews were around, then he followed the old ways, Paul took Peter to task
even after the meeting in Jerusalem with James, the brother of the Lord.
“But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's
brother.”
Post by Dr. Who
(Gal 1:19, KJV)
Post by Ted
the epistle around 45 CE. Meaning that, during the twelve years after
he became a Christian and was busy overseeing the church at
Jerusalem, he attended university, not to study Hebrew, which was the
language used in Judean and Galilean synagogues, but rather Greek so
that he could study the Septuagint and write an intelligent
letter in
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Greek.
James, like his brothers and most all Jewish young men learned at their local
synagogues. They could read Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic. As well as speak the
languages at least for those around Jerusalem.
Post by Ted
And, although we know he insisted that Jewish Christians continued
following the Mosaic Law, he never bothered mentioning it once in the
letter. And that it only appeared he referenced Ephesians, but he
couldn't have because it hadn't yet been written.
James, after believing that Jesus was the Messiah, because of his
resurrection, also followed then the teachings of Jesus, and
accepted what
Post by Dr. Who
Jesus taught and what Isaiah prophesied about, that Jesus fulfilled all the
law, and that those in Christ were under a New Covenant.
James as a leader in Jerusalem would not have been if he had been as ignorant
as you claimed. James' mother Mary kept what happened to Jesus, and the works
that he did, close to her heart, as was stated many times in the Gospels, and
more than likely that was why Luke interviewed here and discussed the life of
Jesus with her, before he wrote the book of Luke.
Post by Ted
That's your claim.
Not mine, its historical
Hardly, dude.

Robert, I know you're not making this shit up, you just swallowed a
ton of bullshit from people you trusted. In fact, only 3% of the
population of Roman Palestine was literate, and that was only urban
elites who had the time and money to pursue an education, or slaves
who were taught to read as part of their duties.

And since I knew you'd ask, I looked up the source. Catherine Hezser
"Jewish Literacy in Roman Palestine"

But don't take her word for it. Read Acts 4:13 where Luke describes
Peter and John as agrammatoi, which (literally) means illiterate.

None of Jesus's family or disciples were able to read. Jesus could
read Hebrew, but only because he was intelligent enough to teach
himself. (Too bad he couldn't also write, the fictional story of the
woman caught in adultery notwithstanding.)
Dr. Who
2023-01-02 00:43:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
The author of the epistle of James wants you to think he's
Jesus's
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
brother, but the content of his writing rats him out as a
liar. He
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
opposes what he believes are Paul's teachings on faith and
works,
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
which he read in Ephesians, which is another forgery written
by a
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
liar claiming to Paul around 85 CE, over 20 years after the
historical James was martyred (and also well after Paul's
death).
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Although we know that Jesus's brother James insisted that
Jewish
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Christians continue observing the Mosaic Law, the author of
this
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
epistle never mentions it. When he says "works", he instead
means
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
good deeds, not the Law, which was what the real Paul
referred to
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
as
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
"works" in his genuine epistles.
But the real knee slapper is that the epistle author evidences
familiarity with the Septuagint, whereas Jesus's brother
James was
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
illiterate or, if he'd ever learned to read at all, it
would've
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
been
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Hebrew, not Greek, for as Josephus explains, the Septuagint
was
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
employed in neither Judah nor Galilee, which synagogues
continued
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
using the Hebrew scriptures. (Josephus, btw, though he'd
developed a
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
measure of fluency in Greek, never cared much for the
language.)
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
In one of the genuine Pauline epistles, Galatians, in verse
1:19,
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Paul reports that he met Jesus's brother James when he was in
Jerusalem. (You see, nobody had ever bothered informing either
one of
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
them that Jesus never existed as a real person.)
Too bad you do not source your material. So it comes across as
an
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
opinion
Post by Dr. Who
piece.
Because I never remember where I read anything, but it would be
easy
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
enough for me to find if requested.
It would be helpful in that it can add to the discussion sometimes
so as to
Post by Dr. Who
sort things our and add depth to the understandings for each of us.
Post by Ted
Post by Dr. Who
Paul heard the voice of the Lord and saw him in the desert, and
perhaps one of the many times he was killed by the Jews, and
then
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
raised from
Post by Dr. Who
the dead by the believers. Josephus need of the Lord by those
who
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
had seen
Post by Dr. Who
him as well as the lasting effects he left behind. And his
reputation.
Post by Dr. Who
Jewish kids were educated in their synagogues. Jerusalem was an
international
Post by Dr. Who
hub of business travelers so some familiarity of foreign
languages
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
there was
Post by Dr. Who
necessary. There were many men named Jesus in the day of Jesus.
Yet
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Jesus the
Post by Dr. Who
Christ stood out due to his work of God.
The LXX was written by the priests, as their language was
disappearing, and
Post by Dr. Who
most Jews lived in foreign lands that only spoke koine Greek.
And
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
in Israel
Post by Dr. Who
they were concerned about those that were afar off would wander
away from the
Post by Dr. Who
religion of Israel, which they all frequently did over the
centuries, even in
Post by Dr. Who
the Land of Israel.
Interesting. Thanks for that information, Robert.
Post by Dr. Who
Jesus affected the entire world even unto this day. Even your
own.
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
as he
is on your mind.
In regard to the book of James there is this tidbit of
information
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
from Dr.
Post by Dr. Who
McGee.
3. James, the Lord's brother. He was a son of Mary and of
Joseph,
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
which made
Post by Dr. Who
him a half brother of the Lord Jesus. In Mat 13:55 we read: “Is
not
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
this
Post by Dr. Who
the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his
brethren, James,
Post by Dr. Who
and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?” In the beginning, the Lord's
brethren did
Post by Dr. Who
not believe in Him at all, but the time came when James became
head
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
of the
Post by Dr. Who
church at Jerusalem. In Acts 15 James seems to have presided
over
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
that great
Post by Dr. Who
council in Jerusalem. At least he made the summation and brought
the council
Post by Dr. Who
to a decision under the leading of the Holy Spirit. I believe it
was this
Post by Dr. Who
James whom Paul referred to in Gal 2:9, “And when James, Cephas,
and John,
Post by Dr. Who
who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given
unto
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
me, they
Post by Dr. Who
gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we
should go unto
Post by Dr. Who
the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.” This James is the
man
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
whom we
Post by Dr. Who
believe to be the author of this epistle.
McGee is hardly a credible Bible scholar. No fundy is credible.
Post by Dr. Who
This epistle was written about A.D. 45–50. There have been those
who have
Post by Dr. Who
said that James wrote his epistle to combat the teachings of
Paul;
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
they argue
Post by Dr. Who
that James emphasizes works while Paul emphasizes faith.
However,
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
the
Post by Dr. Who
earliest of Paul's epistles, 1 Thessalonians, was written about
A.D. 52–56.
Post by Dr. Who
Therefore, even Paul's first epistle was not written until after
the Epistle
Post by Dr. Who
of James, which was the first book of the New Testament to be
written.
Post by Dr. Who
It is clear that James' theme is not works, but faith—the same
as
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Paul's
Post by Dr. Who
theme, but James emphasizes what faith produces. Both James and
Paul speak a
Post by Dr. Who
great deal of faith and works. They give us the two aspects of
justification
I agree that the author of James isn't opposing Paul, but rather
what
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Paul's teachings had been misinterpreted to mean and likely also
what
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
he mistakenly thought they meant. He was writing, at the earliest,
very late in the 1st century.
They were not writing to compliment one another, nor to instruct
one another,
Post by Dr. Who
other than the time that Paul took Peter to task for catering to
the Jews and
Post by Dr. Who
their old covenant. All the while Peter was eating like a gentile
unless he
Post by Dr. Who
knew Jews were around, then he followed the old ways, Paul took
Peter to task
Post by Dr. Who
even after the meeting in Jerusalem with James, the brother of the
Lord.
Post by Dr. Who
“But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's
brother.”
Post by Dr. Who
(Gal 1:19, KJV)
Post by Ted
But you're saying that Jesus's illiterate brother James really
the epistle around 45 CE. Meaning that, during the twelve years
after
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
he became a Christian and was busy overseeing the church at
Jerusalem, he attended university, not to study Hebrew, which was
the
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
language used in Judean and Galilean synagogues, but rather Greek
so
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
that he could study the Septuagint and write an intelligent
letter in
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Greek.
James, like his brothers and most all Jewish young men learned at
their local
Post by Dr. Who
synagogues. They could read Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic. As well as
speak the
Post by Dr. Who
languages at least for those around Jerusalem.
Post by Ted
And, although we know he insisted that Jewish Christians continued
following the Mosaic Law, he never bothered mentioning it once in
the
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
letter. And that it only appeared he referenced Ephesians, but he
couldn't have because it hadn't yet been written.
James, after believing that Jesus was the Messiah, because of his
resurrection, also followed then the teachings of Jesus, and
accepted what
Post by Dr. Who
Jesus taught and what Isaiah prophesied about, that Jesus fulfilled
all the
Post by Dr. Who
law, and that those in Christ were under a New Covenant.
James as a leader in Jerusalem would not have been if he had been
as ignorant
Post by Dr. Who
as you claimed. James' mother Mary kept what happened to Jesus, and
the works
Post by Dr. Who
that he did, close to her heart, as was stated many times in the
Gospels, and
Post by Dr. Who
more than likely that was why Luke interviewed here and discussed
the life of
Post by Dr. Who
Jesus with her, before he wrote the book of Luke.
Post by Ted
That's your claim.
Not mine, its historical
Hardly, dude.
Robert, I know you're not making this shit up, you just swallowed a
ton of bullshit from people you trusted. In fact, only 3% of the
population of Roman Palestine was literate, and that was only urban
elites who had the time and money to pursue an education, or slaves
who were taught to read as part of their duties.
And since I knew you'd ask, I looked up the source. Catherine Hezser
"Jewish Literacy in Roman Palestine"
In the times of the Roman the literacy rate of the Jew was as high as 20%

From the beginning of Israel knowledge and education was important.

Deu 6:6-9 (KJV)

6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of
them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and
when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as
frontlets between thine eyes.

9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.

Deu 31:19 (KJV)

19 Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach it the children of
Israel: put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for me
against the children of Israel.

Deu 11:18-19 (KJV)

18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul,
and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets
between your eyes.

19 And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest
in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and
when thou risest up.

These things and more are written in scripture. The Priests of Israel were
placed in every town and a synagogue made. Children over a certain age came
and were taught, but only by married men. Throughout the nation. The rest of
the world was at odds with them, most times. Seeking to destroy them and
their system.

Their highly educated children and men were sought out by their captors to
teach the young men of those who were in power in all manners of things. Yes,
there also was a lot of home schooling.

Look up the life of Daniel, the life of Joseph son of Isaac who ruled over
all of Egypt for a time, and Egypt flourished greatly under his rule.

I don't have the time to dig out all the scriptures of their skills,
education, etc.

Paul was highly educated
Post by Ted
But don't take her word for it. Read Acts 4:13 where Luke describes
Peter and John as agrammatoi, which (literally) means illiterate.
Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they
were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of
them, that they had been with Jesus [Act 4:13].

“Unlearned and ignorant”—that is, these men hadn't been to a
theological seminary. But the Sanhedrin noted that they had been with Jesus.
How wonderful to have a life that somehow or other calls attention to Jesus!

The same thing might be said about me in comparison to Einstein.

Philip the Apostle rode in the chariot with the Well trained Eunuch teaching
the Eunuch from Egypt from scriptures the way of the Lord and after the
Eunuch believed and then was baptized Philip was tele transported something
like 70 miles away, instantly.
Post by Ted
None of Jesus's family or disciples were able to read. Jesus could
read Hebrew, but only because he was intelligent enough to teach
himself. (Too bad he couldn't also write, the fictional story of the
woman caught in adultery notwithstanding.)
Jesus could read and speak in multiple languages and read both Greek and
Hebrew even quoting from the LXX at times.It would not surprise me to find
out he spoke Latin as well.

The brothers of Jesus would have at the least been tough by Joseph their
father, and then the synagogue itself but the priests.

Then again Ted, think about this, the LXX and why it was written and
distributed around the world. It was the Hebrew Scriptures translated to
koine Greek, since the build of the Israeli nations was scattered across the
face of the earth and most had forgotten Hebrew and never spoke of red it.

With the LXX they could return to the Lord from wherever they lived and spoke
Greek, the language of the rulers of the earth. Education was important to
them.

I am not brainwashed as I have learned like Reagan. Trust but verify.
Ted
2023-01-02 20:29:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr. Who
In the times of the Roman the literacy rate
of the Jew was as high as 20%
3%. I cited a reference.
Post by Dr. Who
From the beginning of Israel knowledge and education was important.
Deu 6:6-9 (KJV)
7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of
them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and
when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as
frontlets between thine eyes.
9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.
Deu 31:19 (KJV)
19 Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach it the
children of
Post by Dr. Who
Israel: put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for me
against the children of Israel.
Deu 11:18-19 (KJV)
18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul,
and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as
frontlets
Post by Dr. Who
between your eyes.
19 And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest
in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and
when thou risest up.
These things and more are written in scripture. The Priests of
Israel were
Post by Dr. Who
placed in every town and a synagogue made. Children over a certain age came
and were taught, but only by married men. Throughout the nation. The rest of
the world was at odds with them, most times. Seeking to destroy them and
their system.
Their highly educated children and men were sought out by their captors to
teach the young men of those who were in power in all manners of things. Yes,
there also was a lot of home schooling.
Look up the life of Daniel, the life of Joseph son of Isaac who ruled over
all of Egypt for a time, and Egypt flourished
greatly under his rule.
And there's probably a factual kernel in the story.
Post by Dr. Who
I don't have the time to dig out all the scriptures of their
skills,
Post by Dr. Who
education, etc.
Paul was highly educated
Nobody has ever denied that.
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
But don't take her word for it. Read Acts 4:13 where Luke
describes
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Peter and John as agrammatoi, which (literally) means illiterate.
Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they
were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took
knowledge of
Post by Dr. Who
them, that they had been with Jesus [Act 4:13].
“Unlearned and ignorant”—that is, these men hadn't been to a
theological seminary.
No. 'Agrammatoi' is most precisely translated as 'illiterate'.
Post by Dr. Who
But the Sanhedrin noted that they had been with Jesus.
How wonderful to have a life that somehow or other calls attention to Jesus!
The same thing might be said about me in comparison to Einstein.
Philip the Apostle rode in the chariot with the Well trained Eunuch teaching
the Eunuch from Egypt from scriptures the way of the Lord and after the
Eunuch believed and then was baptized Philip was tele transported something
like 70 miles away, instantly.
Post by Ted
None of Jesus's family or disciples were able to read. Jesus could
read Hebrew, but only because he was intelligent enough to teach
himself. (Too bad he couldn't also write, the fictional story of the
woman caught in adultery notwithstanding.)
Jesus could read and speak in multiple languages and read both
Greek and
Post by Dr. Who
Hebrew even quoting from the LXX at times.It would not surprise me to find
out he spoke Latin as well.
The brothers of Jesus would have at the least been tough by Joseph their
father, and then the synagogue itself but the priests.
Then again Ted, think about this, the LXX and why it was written and
distributed around the world. It was the Hebrew Scriptures
translated to
Post by Dr. Who
koine Greek, since the build of the Israeli nations was scattered across the
face of the earth and most had forgotten Hebrew and never spoke of red it.
With the LXX they could return to the Lord from wherever they lived and spoke
Greek, the language of the rulers of the earth. Education was
important to
Post by Dr. Who
them.
It wasn't used in Judea or Galilee (unless you claim Josephus was
lying).
Post by Dr. Who
I am not brainwashed as I have learned like
Reagan. Trust but verify.
You're very well read and it's quite impressive. But you've swallowed
bullshit from people who claim a talking snake deceived a mythical
woman into eating a piece of fruit. Fundies have an ulterior motive
for whatever they write and it forces them to lie.
Dr. Who
2023-01-02 22:54:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted
Post by Dr. Who
In the times of the Roman the literacy rate
of the Jew was as high as 20%
3%. I cited a reference.
Yes you did, and that reference was for all people in that area at the time
of Jesus. Which if you were to check out even in WIKI they would agree with
her. Yet the Jewish illiterate even there are rated higher than average and
could be attributed to the Jews who followed the ordinances given in Deut.
Post by Ted
Post by Dr. Who
From the beginning of Israel knowledge and education was important.
Deu 6:6-9 (KJV)
6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine
7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt
talk of
Post by Dr. Who
them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the
way, and
Post by Dr. Who
when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they
shall be as
Post by Dr. Who
frontlets between thine eyes.
9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy
gates.
Post by Dr. Who
Deu 31:19 (KJV)
19 Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach it the
children of
Post by Dr. Who
Israel: put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for
me
Post by Dr. Who
against the children of Israel.
Deu 11:18-19 (KJV)
18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in
your soul,
Post by Dr. Who
and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as
frontlets
Post by Dr. Who
between your eyes.
19 And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when
thou sittest
Post by Dr. Who
in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest
down, and
Post by Dr. Who
when thou risest up.
These things and more are written in scripture. The Priests of
Israel were
Post by Dr. Who
placed in every town and a synagogue made. Children over a certain
age came
Post by Dr. Who
and were taught, but only by married men. Throughout the nation.
The rest of
Post by Dr. Who
the world was at odds with them, most times. Seeking to destroy
them and
Post by Dr. Who
their system.
Their highly educated children and men were sought out by their
captors to
Post by Dr. Who
teach the young men of those who were in power in all manners of
things. Yes,
Post by Dr. Who
there also was a lot of home schooling.
Look up the life of Daniel, the life of Joseph son of Isaac who
ruled over
Post by Dr. Who
all of Egypt for a time, and Egypt flourished
greatly under his rule.
And there's probably a factual kernel in the story.
This was also true of other nations captors of the Israelites
Post by Ted
Post by Dr. Who
I don't have the time to dig out all the scriptures of their
skills,
Post by Dr. Who
education, etc.
Paul was highly educated
Nobody has ever denied that.
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
But don't take her word for it. Read Acts 4:13 where Luke
describes
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Peter and John as agrammatoi, which (literally) means illiterate.
Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived
that they
Post by Dr. Who
were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took
knowledge of
Post by Dr. Who
them, that they had been with Jesus [Act 4:13].
“Unlearned and ignorant”—that is, these men hadn't been to a
theological seminary.
No. 'Agrammatoi' is most precisely translated as 'illiterate'.
Read the verse again, but in the context of the chapter.

Act 4:5-8 (NKJV)

5 And it came to pass, on the next day, that their rulers, elders, and
scribes,

6 as well as Annas the high priest, Caiaphas, John, and Alexander, and as
many as were of the family of the high priest, were gathered together at
Jerusalem.

7 And when they had set them in the midst, they asked, "By what power or by
what name have you done this?"

8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, "Rulers of the
people and elders of Israel:

As you can see, it was not Luke that said they were, but the religious super
dupers.

Even if that had been "illiterate" like totally without education, the had
been under the guidance or a Teacher, or Rabbi, for a number of years which
many called Jesus, from the very rich to the poor.

Jesus also taught them out of the Scriptures where he was identified and
spoken of in the OT before he left. If they were illiterate like you claim it
would do them no good if they all could not read for the written word would
have been gibberish to them and Jesus may as well pointed them to chicken
scratches as if it were scripture.
Post by Ted
Post by Dr. Who
But the Sanhedrin noted that they had been with Jesus.
How wonderful to have a life that somehow or other calls attention
to Jesus!
Post by Dr. Who
The same thing might be said about me in comparison to Einstein.
Philip the Apostle rode in the chariot with the Well trained Eunuch
teaching
Post by Dr. Who
the Eunuch from Egypt from scriptures the way of the Lord and after
the
Post by Dr. Who
Eunuch believed and then was baptized Philip was tele transported
something
Post by Dr. Who
like 70 miles away, instantly.
Post by Ted
None of Jesus's family or disciples were able to read. Jesus could
read Hebrew, but only because he was intelligent enough to teach
himself. (Too bad he couldn't also write, the fictional story of
the
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
woman caught in adultery notwithstanding.)
Jesus could read and speak in multiple languages and read both
Greek and
Post by Dr. Who
Hebrew even quoting from the LXX at times.It would not surprise me
to find
Post by Dr. Who
out he spoke Latin as well.
The brothers of Jesus would have at the least been tough by Joseph
their
Post by Dr. Who
father, and then the synagogue itself but the priests.
Then again Ted, think about this, the LXX and why it was written
and
Post by Dr. Who
distributed around the world. It was the Hebrew Scriptures
translated to
Post by Dr. Who
koine Greek, since the build of the Israeli nations was scattered
across the
Post by Dr. Who
face of the earth and most had forgotten Hebrew and never spoke of
red it.
Post by Dr. Who
With the LXX they could return to the Lord from wherever they lived
and spoke
Post by Dr. Who
Greek, the language of the rulers of the earth. Education was
important to
Post by Dr. Who
them.
It wasn't used in Judea or Galilee (unless you claim Josephus was
lying).
Josephus's works are the chief source next to the Bible for the history and
antiquity of ancient Palestine, and provide a significant and independent
extra-Biblical account of such figures as Pontius Pilate, Herod the Great,
John the Baptist, James the Just, and possibly
Jesus of Nazareth

In the temple only Hebrew was allowed but not so in the synagogues. Multiple
languages were spoken in Jerusalem and throughout Judea is it was a hub of
trade. The Gospel or Matthew was first written in Hebrew. And Greek was still
the business language of the world.

I do not understand how you would come up with the idea that I thought
Josephus was lying.
Post by Ted
.
Post by Dr. Who
I am not brainwashed as I have learned like
Reagan. Trust but verify.
You're very well read and it's quite impressive. But you've swallowed
bullshit from people who claim a talking snake deceived a mythical
woman into eating a piece of fruit. Fundies have an ulterior motive
for whatever they write and it forces them to lie.
God, the author of the Bible is not people. And my relationship with him is
not based on people at any level. It is based on a personal experiential
relationship with him, or him with me. For that reason I do not doubt His
word, or His power, and these things I speak of you will see evidences of in
the coming years, things which will happen world wide and prophesied of near
3K years ago. Many will doubt what they see with their own eyes and hear what
they hear with their ears, but it will be mainly the pseudo religious people
who will be opposed. due to the hardness of their hearts, strange as that may
seem.

Oh, and speaking of creatures that speak? I also believe that there was a
talking ass. Seriously, a real one, not a certain person. ;) It was in
regards to the Prophet Balaam in the OT, who refused to go further due to an
angel with a flaming sword blocking their path.
Ted
2023-01-04 01:07:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
3%. I cited a reference.
Yes you did, and that reference was for all
people in that area at the time of Jesus.
Which if you were to check out even in
WIKI they would agree with her. Yet the
Jewish illiterate even there are rated higher
than average and could be attributed to
the Jews who followed the ordinances
given in Deut.
Post by Ted
And there's probably a factual kernel in
the story.
This was also true of other nations captors
of the Israelites
Post by Ted
No. 'Agrammatoi' is most precisely
translated as 'illiterate'.
Read the verse again, but in the context of the chapter.
Act 4:5-8 (NKJV)
5 And it came to pass, on the next day, that
their rulers, elders, and scribes,
6 as well as Annas the high priest,
Caiaphas, John, and Alexander, and as
many as were of the family of the high
priest, were gathered together at
Jerusalem.
7 And when they had set them in the midst,
they asked, "By what power or by what
name have you done this?"
8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said
to them, "Rulers of the people and elders of
As you can see, it was not Luke that said
they were, but the religious super dupers.
It was Luke. Read it again. Luke doesn't report that they made the
claim. He was stating that they perceived what was factual.
Post by Dr. Who
Even if that had been "illiterate" like totally
without education, the had been under the
guidance or a Teacher, or Rabbi, for a
number of years which many called Jesus,
from the very rich to the poor.
Luke said they were agrammatoi, which means illiterate, i.e. unable
to read or write.
Post by Dr. Who
Jesus also taught them out of the
Scriptures where he was identified and
spoken of in the OT before he left. If they
were illiterate like you claim it would do
them no good if they all could not read for
the written word would have been
gibberish to them and Jesus may as well
pointed them to chicken scratches as if it
were scripture.
They couldn't read. Because, as Luke points out, they were agrammatoi.
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
It wasn't used in Judea or Galilee (unless
you claim Josephus was lying).
I do not understand how you would come
up with the idea that I thought Josephus
was lying.
I didn't. Are you agrammatoi?
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
You're very well read and it's quite
impressive. But you've swallowed bullshit
from people who claim a talking snake
deceived a mythical woman into eating a
piece of fruit. Fundies have an ulterior
motive for whatever they write and it
forces them to lie.
God, the author of the Bible is not people.
Arguable, but beside the point.
Post by Dr. Who
And my relationship with him is not based
on people at any level. It is based on a
personal experiential relationship with him,
or him with me. For that reason I do not
doubt His word, or His power, and these
things I speak of you will see evidences of
in the coming years, things which will
happen world wide and prophesied of near
3K years ago. Many will doubt what they
see with their own eyes and hear what they
hear with their ears, but it will be mainly the
pseudo religious people who will be
opposed. due to the hardness of their
hearts, strange as that may seem.
Oh, and speaking of creatures that speak?
I also believe that there was a talking ass.
Seriously, a real one, not a certain
person. ;) It was in regards to the Prophet
Balaam in the OT, who refused to go
further due to an angel with a flaming
sword blocking their path.
Dr. Who
2023-01-04 01:50:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
3%. I cited a reference.
Yes you did, and that reference was for all
people in that area at the time of Jesus.
Which if you were to check out even in
WIKI they would agree with her. Yet the
Jewish illiterate even there are rated higher
than average and could be attributed to
the Jews who followed the ordinances
given in Deut.
Post by Ted
And there's probably a factual kernel in
the story.
This was also true of other nations captors
of the Israelites
Post by Ted
No. 'Agrammatoi' is most precisely
translated as 'illiterate'.
Read the verse again, but in the context of the chapter.
Act 4:5-8 (NKJV)
5 And it came to pass, on the next day, that
their rulers, elders, and scribes,
6 as well as Annas the high priest,
Caiaphas, John, and Alexander, and as
many as were of the family of the high
priest, were gathered together at
Jerusalem.
7 And when they had set them in the midst,
they asked, "By what power or by what
name have you done this?"
8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said
to them, "Rulers of the people and elders of
As you can see, it was not Luke that said
they were, but the religious super dupers.
It was Luke. Read it again. Luke doesn't report that they made the
claim. He was stating that they perceived what was factual.
“Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they
were uneducated and untrained men, they marveled. And they realized that they
had been with Jesus.” (Act 4:13, NKJV)

[unlearned and ignorant men] Without the higher education of Judaism;
unprofessional men—men of the rank and file of the Jews. They were not
destitute of knowledge for they had divine knowledge.

[took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus] They recognized them
to be followers or companions of Jesus of Nazareth.

Who was the "they" in that verse? It sure was not Luke.
Post by Ted
Post by Dr. Who
Even if that had been "illiterate" like totally
without education, the had been under the
guidance or a Teacher, or Rabbi, for a
number of years which many called Jesus,
from the very rich to the poor.
Luke said they were agrammatoi, which means illiterate, i.e. unable
to read or write.
Post by Dr. Who
Jesus also taught them out of the
Scriptures where he was identified and
spoken of in the OT before he left. If they
were illiterate like you claim it would do
them no good if they all could not read for
the written word would have been
gibberish to them and Jesus may as well
pointed them to chicken scratches as if it
were scripture.
They couldn't read. Because, as Luke points out, they were agrammatoi.
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
It wasn't used in Judea or Galilee (unless
you claim Josephus was lying).
I do not understand how you would come
up with the idea that I thought Josephus
was lying.
I didn't. Are you agrammatoi?
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
You're very well read and it's quite
impressive. But you've swallowed bullshit
from people who claim a talking snake
deceived a mythical woman into eating a
piece of fruit. Fundies have an ulterior
motive for whatever they write and it
forces them to lie.
God, the author of the Bible is not people.
Arguable, but beside the point.
Post by Dr. Who
And my relationship with him is not based
on people at any level. It is based on a
personal experiential relationship with him,
or him with me. For that reason I do not
doubt His word, or His power, and these
things I speak of you will see evidences of
in the coming years, things which will
happen world wide and prophesied of near
3K years ago. Many will doubt what they
see with their own eyes and hear what they
hear with their ears, but it will be mainly the
pseudo religious people who will be
opposed. due to the hardness of their
hearts, strange as that may seem.
Oh, and speaking of creatures that speak?
I also believe that there was a talking ass.
Seriously, a real one, not a certain
person. ;) It was in regards to the Prophet
Balaam in the OT, who refused to go
further due to an angel with a flaming
sword blocking their path.
Ted
2023-01-04 03:33:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
3%. I cited a reference.
Yes you did, and that reference was for all
people in that area at the time of Jesus.
Which if you were to check out even in
WIKI they would agree with her. Yet the
Jewish illiterate even there are rated higher
than average and could be attributed to
the Jews who followed the ordinances
given in Deut.
Post by Ted
And there's probably a factual kernel in
the story.
This was also true of other nations captors
of the Israelites
Post by Ted
No. 'Agrammatoi' is most precisely
translated as 'illiterate'.
Read the verse again, but in the context of the chapter.
Act 4:5-8 (NKJV)
5 And it came to pass, on the next day, that
their rulers, elders, and scribes,
6 as well as Annas the high priest,
Caiaphas, John, and Alexander, and as
many as were of the family of the high
priest, were gathered together at
Jerusalem.
7 And when they had set them in the midst,
they asked, "By what power or by what
name have you done this?"
8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said
to them, "Rulers of the people and elders of
As you can see, it was not Luke that said
they were, but the religious super dupers.
It was Luke. Read it again. Luke doesn't report that they made the
claim. He was stating that they perceived what was factual.
“Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they
were uneducated and untrained men, they marveled. And they realized that they
had been with Jesus.” (Act 4:13, NKJV)
Exactly. Luke calls them agrammatoi. He says that was.perceived by
the Annas etc.
Post by Dr. Who
[unlearned and ignorant men] Without the higher education of
Judaism;
Post by Dr. Who
unprofessional men—men of the rank and file of the Jews. They were not
destitute of knowledge for they had divine knowledge.
The word (agrammatoi) you're translating as "unlearned and ignorant"
is more precisely translated as."illiterate". If you don't believe
me, use Google Translate. That means they couldn't read.
Post by Dr. Who
[took knowledge of them, that they had
been with Jesus] They recognized them
to be followers or companions of Jesus of
Nazareth.
Who was the "they" in that verse? It sure
was not Luke.
I agree. It was Annas etc. But it's Luke who acknowledges the truth
of what they recognized, just as above he acknowledged the truth of
what they perceived.

Christ, man, this is just elementary reading skill. Why are you
pretending to be stupid?
Dr. Who
2023-01-04 03:35:52 UTC
Permalink
Luke said they were agrammatoi, which means illiterate, i.e. unable to read
or write.
Post by Dr. Who
Jesus also taught them out of the
Scriptures where he was identified and
spoken of in the OT before he left. If they
were illiterate like you claim it would do
them no good if they all could not read for
the written word would have been
gibberish to them and Jesus may as well
pointed them to chicken scratches as if it
were scripture.
They couldn't read. Because, as Luke points out, they were agrammatoi.
agrammatos

Thayer Definition:

1) illiterate, unlearned

Do not forget that Peter penned epistles, he was, after all a fisherman and
not a scholar, nor possibly as literate as Matthew.

Just thinking, if all these people were as poor off education wise, as some
would have you believe, then that would just magnify the power and Glory of
God all the more due to the mighty works and miracles that happened around
them.

Would that we were ALL that illiterate.
Ted
2023-01-04 03:52:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Luke said they were agrammatoi, which means illiterate, i.e.
unable to read
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
or write.
Post by Dr. Who
Jesus also taught them out of the
Scriptures where he was identified and
spoken of in the OT before he left. If they
were illiterate like you claim it would do
them no good if they all could not read for
the written word would have been
gibberish to them and Jesus may as well
pointed them to chicken scratches as if it
were scripture.
They couldn't read. Because, as Luke points out, they were
agrammatoi.
Post by Dr. Who
agrammatos
1) illiterate, unlearned
Thank you.
Post by Dr. Who
Do not forget that Peter penned epistles, he was, after all a
fisherman and
Post by Dr. Who
not a scholar, nor possibly as literate as Matthew.
Just thinking, if all these people were as poor off education wise, as some
would have you believe, then that would just magnify the power and Glory of
God all the more due to the mighty works and miracles that happened around
them.
Would that we were ALL that illiterate.
Understandable. But the original point was that James couldn't have
written the epistle because he was illiterate. Because they were all
illiterate as Catherine Hezser researched and wrote in "Jewish
Literacy in Roman Palestine".

So QED
Dr. Who
2023-01-04 05:49:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted
Catherine Hezser
Since Judaism has always been seen as the quintessential 'religion of the
book', a high literacy rate amongst ancient Jews has usually been taken for
granted. Catherine Hezser presents the first critical analysis of the various
aspects of ancient Jewish literacy on the basis of all of the literary,
epigraphic, and papyrological material published so far. Thereby she takes
into consideration the analogies in Graeco-Roman culture and models and
theories developed in the social sciences. Rather than trying to determine
the exact literacy rate amongst ancient Jews, she examines the various types,
social contexts, and functions of writing and the relationship between
writing and oral forms of discourse. Following recent social-anthropological
approaches to literacy, the guiding question is: who used what type of
writing for which purpose? First Catherine Hezser examines the conditions
which would enable or prevent the spread of literacy, such as education and
schools, the availability and costs of writing materials, religious interest
in writing and books, the existence of archives and libraries, and the
question of multilingualism. Afterwards she looks at the different types of
writing, such as letters, documents, miscellaneous notes, inscriptions and
graffiti, and literary and magical texts until she finally draws conclusions
about the ways in which the various sectors of the populace were able to
participate in a literate society.

She has sold maybe 20 books? And that is being generous.

IT Appears here in a review of the book that your info was hearsay and
untrue. What you claimed is offset right in the 1st three paragraphs. It is
obvious that you never read her book.

BOOK REVIEW

Bart Ehrman interested me in this book when he claimed Hezser posited a
literacy rate in Roman Palestine at 3%, a figure that seemed astoundingly
low.

Ehrman was wrong. Hezser mentioned Bar Ilan's speculation about a 3% literacy
rate, but Hezser herself never gives any estimate, other than to postulate
that the literacy rate may have been below the standard 10-15% argued by
Harris and that it "must be considered to have been lower than the average
Roman rate" (p 496).. She may be a minimalist, but she is fair.

At any rate, this is an excellent book, absolutely exhaustive in detail, with
over 500 pages.

There is no easy answer to the question of how many people were literate in
the ancient world, but Palestine is especially vexing problem.

Various scholars have argued that, after the Maccabees especially, the Jewish
people became more focused on teaching every male child to be able to read
the Torah. Wilhelm Bacher wrote that "In the first centuries A.D. the Jewish
community was...united in...teaching...its written and oral traditions (as)
the highest 'national' goal" (p 40).

Bacher noted the reference to 480 "synagogues with associated schools...in
Jerusalem before the destruction of the city" (p 42) and that Shimon b.
Shetach ordained that all Jewish male children should attend school.
"According to Nathan Drazin, fathers continued to be expected to provide an
elementary school education to their sons in Second Temple times" (p 44), and
it is certainly likely that the most religious fathers would be anxious to
have their sons to read the Torah.

Gerhardsson believes that "toward the end of the Amoraic period, school
attendance was, to judge from the evidence, quite general, although not
compulsory, among the Jews" (p 45).

Reading was more frequently taught in ancient schools from Egypt to Rome than
writing. In Palestine, evidence in the form of abecedaries were discovered on
many ostraca and the occasional parchment across Palestine, also notably at
Qumran and at Masada. Abecederies were also found in funeral inscriptions,
clearly not educational in purpose.

There is also '4Q Therapeia' "a small piece of leather or parchment with
meaningless words on it" (p 87) and various ostraca with scribbles on them.
Exercises by children or...? The Lachish ostraca and the Elephantine papyri
caused Drazin to argue that both Hebrew and Aramaic were taught to Jewish
children from the 7th century B.C.

The Qumran community offers an example of strong religious belief coupled
with an insistence that every male be able to read the Torah, starting at the
age of ten. Those who joined the community later were taught to read. "Torah
reading seems to have been an important feature of all or at least some of
the pre-70 synagogues in Palestine" (p 452) and may explain why early
Christian communities read religious texts when the Christians were at
worship.

Although some scholars have dismissed the evidence from Qumran as likely only
being applicable to the Essenes, there is evidence that even very small
villages kept Torah rolls. In 50 AD, Josephus wrote that when an imperial
freedman was set upon and robbed, Cumanus ordered all nearby villages to be
raided. One of the soldiers burned up a Torah scroll. From a tiny village.

R. Shimon b. Gamliel wrote that there were some 500 'houses of scribes' "in
Bethar at the time of the Bar Kokhba revolt Even the smallest of these
schools is said to have been attended by not less than 500 children" (p 50).
It is also true that rabbis associated knowledge of the Torah with the
supporters of Bar Kokhba, "just as they thought that that knowledge was
prevalent amongst the inhabitants of pre-70 Jerusalem" (p 50).

Since the last years of the Second Temple, being able to "read the Torah is
repeatedly emphasized in Greek Jewish writings and by Josephus...Josephus
writes that the Torah 'orders that they (children) shall be taught
letters...and shall learn both the laws and deeds of the forefathers '" (p
68). The emphasis on the Torah appears to have been standard in all the
different types of Judaism. Hengel assumes that this education developed by
the Pharisees "gave rise to the later Rabbinate" (p 69).

Ancient education stressed memorization, so it is unsurprisingly to learn
that "Antigonos of Sokho (about 3rd B.C.) had two disciples who would repeat
...his words...and they would repeat them to disciples and disciples to
disciples'" (p 98). "Rabbis' claim to have accurate traditions from earlier
generations" (p 429)

The ancients, who "because of the classical training in mnemotechnics, Greeks
and Romans trusted their memories to an extent that we would never trust ours
today" (p 423). Which may explain why "Quotations were usually not checked"
(p 423).

When was the Jewish canon formed? "By the first century B.C.. most books
which would later form part of the canon were already in high esteem" (p
193). Torah scrolls were cherished. In 50 A.D. Josephus writes about a Roman
soldier burning a Torah school, causing rioting, and only the summary
execution of the soldier quelled the angry populace.

Hebrew was the common language in Palestine until the time of Alexander the
Great. Hebrew would remain the holy language, the language of Torah, but
Aramaic gained ascendancy over it among the populace as time passed.

After Alexander the Great, Greek towns were established across Palestine, and
it appears many, if not most, of Second Temple Jews spoke Aramaic and Greek.
Saul Lieberman's "studies have been groundbreaking in their argumentation for
a widespread knowledge of Greek amongst Palestinian Jews" (p 231).

17 people found this helpful
Ted
2023-01-04 04:55:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Luke said they were agrammatoi, which means illiterate, i.e.
unable to read
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
or write.
Post by Dr. Who
Jesus also taught them out of the
Scriptures where he was identified and
spoken of in the OT before he left. If they
were illiterate like you claim it would do
them no good if they all could not read for
the written word would have been
gibberish to them and Jesus may as well
pointed them to chicken scratches as if it
were scripture.
They couldn't read. Because, as Luke points out, they were
agrammatoi.
Post by Dr. Who
agrammatos
1) illiterate, unlearned
Do not forget that Peter penned epistles,
Oh LOL I just now read this. No, the Petrine epistles are also
forgeries. 2 Peter wasn't even written until the second century.
Dr. Who
2023-01-04 05:52:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Luke said they were agrammatoi, which means illiterate, i.e.
unable to read
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
or write.
Post by Dr. Who
Jesus also taught them out of the
Scriptures where he was identified and
spoken of in the OT before he left. If they
were illiterate like you claim it would do
them no good if they all could not read for
the written word would have been
gibberish to them and Jesus may as well
pointed them to chicken scratches as if it
were scripture.
They couldn't read. Because, as Luke points out, they were
agrammatoi.
Post by Dr. Who
agrammatos
1) illiterate, unlearned
Do not forget that Peter penned epistles,
Oh LOL I just now read this. No, the Petrine epistles are also
forgeries. 2 Peter wasn't even written until the second century.
Not true. You do an awful lot of surmising, And your reasoning for illiteracy
is groundless.
Ted
2023-01-04 07:43:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Luke said they were agrammatoi, which means illiterate, i.e.
unable to read
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
or write.
Post by Dr. Who
Jesus also taught them out of the
Scriptures where he was identified and
spoken of in the OT before he left. If they
were illiterate like you claim it would do
them no good if they all could not read for
the written word would have been
gibberish to them and Jesus may as well
pointed them to chicken scratches as if it
were scripture.
They couldn't read. Because, as Luke points out, they were
agrammatoi.
Post by Dr. Who
agrammatos
1) illiterate, unlearned
Do not forget that Peter penned epistles,
Oh LOL I just now read this. No, the Petrine epistles are also
forgeries. 2 Peter wasn't even written until the second century.
Not true. You do an awful lot of surmising, And your reasoning for illiteracy
is groundless.
Even if you think Peter was a university scholar, it's still obvious
that he didn't write the Petrine epistles.
Dr. Who
2023-01-04 08:46:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
Luke said they were agrammatoi, which means illiterate, i.e.
unable to read
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
or write.
Post by Dr. Who
Jesus also taught them out of the
Scriptures where he was identified and
spoken of in the OT before he left. If they
were illiterate like you claim it would do
them no good if they all could not read for
the written word would have been
gibberish to them and Jesus may as well
pointed them to chicken scratches as if it
were scripture.
They couldn't read. Because, as Luke points out, they were
agrammatoi.
Post by Dr. Who
agrammatos
1) illiterate, unlearned
Do not forget that Peter penned epistles,
Oh LOL I just now read this. No, the Petrine epistles are also
forgeries. 2 Peter wasn't even written until the second century.
Not true. You do an awful lot of surmising, And your reasoning for
illiteracy
Post by Dr. Who
is groundless.
Even if you think Peter was a university scholar, it's still obvious
that he didn't write the Petrine epistles.
Never said he was a scholar in that sense. But he did write Gods words, in
his fashion and style. I could tell by his subjects and word usage. I have
never heard of them being called the Petrine epistles. :) but then I am not a
theologian.
Ted
2023-01-04 16:58:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Dr. Who
On Tue, 03 Jan 2023 19:35:52 -0800, Dr.
Post by Dr. Who
(in
Post by Ted
Luke said they were agrammatoi, which means illiterate, i.e.
unable to read
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Ted
or write.
Post by Dr. Who
Jesus also taught them out of the
Scriptures where he was identified and
spoken of in the OT before he left. If they
were illiterate like you claim it would do
them no good if they all could not read for
the written word would have been
gibberish to them and Jesus may as well
pointed them to chicken scratches as if it
were scripture.
They couldn't read. Because, as Luke points out, they were
agrammatoi.
Post by Dr. Who
agrammatos
1) illiterate, unlearned
Do not forget that Peter penned epistles,
Oh LOL I just now read this. No, the Petrine epistles are also
forgeries. 2 Peter wasn't even written until the second
century.
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Dr. Who
Not true. You do an awful lot of surmising, And your reasoning for
illiteracy
Post by Dr. Who
is groundless.
Even if you think Peter was a university scholar, it's still
obvious
Post by Dr. Who
Post by Dr. Who
that he didn't write the Petrine epistles.
Never said he was a scholar in that sense. But he did write Gods words, in
his fashion and style. I could tell by his subjects and word usage. I have
never heard of them being called the Petrine epistles. :) but then I am not a
theologian.
Haha. Yeah, I guess that reveals what I've been reading. Normal
people say "epistles of Peter".

teslaStinker
2023-01-01 03:26:11 UTC
Permalink
The author of the epistle of James wants you to think he's Jesus's brother, but the content of his writing rats him out as a liar. He opposes what he believes are Paul's teachings on faith and works, which he read in Ephesians, which is another forgery written by a liar claiming to Paul around 85 CE, over 20 years after the historical James was martyred (and also well after Paul's death). Although we know that Jesus's brother James insisted that Jewish Christians continue observing the Mosaic Law, the author of this epistle never mentions it. When he says "works", he instead means good deeds, not the Law, which was what the real Paul referred to as "works" in his genuine epistles.But the real knee slapper is that the epistle author evidences familiarity with the Septuagint, whereas Jesus's brother James was illiterate or, if he'd ever learned to read at all, it would've been Hebrew, not Greek, for as Josephus explains, the Septuagint was employed in neither Judah nor Galilee, which synagogues continued using the Hebrew scriptures. (Josephus, btw, though he'd developed a measure of fluency in Greek, never cared much for the language.)In one of the genuine Pauline epistles, Galatians, in verse 1:19, Paul reports that he met Jesus's brother James when he was in Jerusalem. (You see, nobody had ever bothered informing either one of them that Jesus never existed as a real person.)
Go ahead keep it up ass holes. Your books are fucked. Do you
really think Saint Jude is the Son of Mary the Holy Mother Maria?
Your so fucked up just like the jws full of shit raping
children instead of teaching them the real truth about the true
faith......And what Jesus said. All that believe in Him, will
discard bad books written by Cesar's Kings. This started with
the prophet Daniel, 700 years before Christ was born..... You
don't believe Him? How could you believe Jesus? You don't,
that's the true point. Your pride is over your nose, cannot
even smell the truth dog.
--
Daniel
Ted
2023-01-01 04:23:50 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 19:26:11 -0800 (PST), teslaStinker
Post by teslaStinker
Post by Ted
The author of the epistle of James wants you to think he's
Jesus's brother, but the content of his writing rats him out as a
liar. He opposes what he believes are Paul's teachings on faith and
works, which he read in Ephesians, which is another forgery written
by a liar claiming to Paul around 85 CE, over 20 years after the
historical James was martyred (and also well after Paul's death).
Although we know that Jesus's brother James insisted that Jewish
Christians continue observing the Mosaic Law, the author of this
epistle never mentions it. When he says "works", he instead means
good deeds, not the Law, which was what the real Paul referred to as
"works" in his genuine epistles.But the real knee slapper is that the
epistle author evidences familiarity with the Septuagint, whereas
Jesus's brother James was illiterate or, if he'd ever learned to read
at all, it would've been Hebrew, not Greek, for as Josephus explains,
the Septuagint was employed in neither Judah nor Galilee, which
synagogues continued using the Hebrew scriptures. (Josephus, btw,
though he'd developed a measure of fluency in Greek, never cared much
for the language.)In one of the genuine Pauline epistles, Galatians,
in verse 1:19, Paul reports that he met Jesus's brother James when he
was in Jerusalem. (You see, nobody had ever bothered informing either
one of them that Jesus never existed as a real person.)
Post by teslaStinker
Go ahead keep it up ass holes. Your books are fucked. Do you
really think Saint Jude is the Son of Mary the Holy Mother Maria?
Your so fucked up just like the jws full of shit raping
children instead of teaching them the real truth about the true
faith......And what Jesus said. All that believe in Him, will
discard bad books written by Cesar's Kings. This started with
the prophet Daniel, 700 years before Christ was born..... You
don't believe Him? How could you believe Jesus? You don't,
that's the true point. Your pride is over your nose, cannot
even smell the truth dog.
--
Daniel
Actually, the book of Daniel was written, not during the Exile as the
author claims, but during the 2nd century BCE. It's one of the latest
OT writings. But even if it had been written during the Exile, that
was still less than 700 years BC.

No, the author of Jude wasn't really Jesus's brother either, but it's
a fact that Jesus did have brothers. The Greek word used means
literally male sibling. Not cousin. The RCCs teaching on this, dating
back to the 4th century, is simply false.
Dr. Who
2023-01-01 04:56:22 UTC
Permalink
The author of the epistle of James wants you to think he's Jesus's brother,
but the content of his writing rats him out as a liar. He opposes what he
believes are Paul's teachings on faith and works, which he read in
Ephesians, which is another forgery written by a liar claiming to Paul
around 85 CE, over 20 years after the historical James was martyred (and
also well after Paul's death). Although we know that Jesus's brother James
insisted that Jewish Christians continue observing the Mosaic Law, the
author of this epistle never mentions it. When he says "works", he instead
means good deeds, not the Law, which was what the real Paul referred to as
"works" in his genuine epistles.But the real knee slapper is that the
epistle author evidences familiarity with the Septuagint, whereas Jesus's
brother James was illiterate or, if he'd ever learned to read at all, it
would've been Hebrew, not Greek, for as Josephus explains, the Septuagint
was employed in neither Judah nor Galilee, which synagogues continued using
the Hebrew scriptures. (Josephus, btw, though he'd developed a measure of
fluency in Greek, never cared much for the language.)In one of the genuine
Pauline epistles, Galatians, in verse 1:19, Paul reports that he met
Jesus's brother James when he was in Jerusalem. (You see, nobody had ever
bothered informing either one of them that Jesus never existed as a real
person.)
Go ahead keep it up ass holes. Your books are fucked. Do you
really think Saint Jude is the Son of Mary the Holy Mother Maria?
Your so fucked up just like the jws full of shit raping
children instead of teaching them the real truth about the true
faith......And what Jesus said. All that believe in Him, will
discard bad books written by Cesar's Kings. This started with
the prophet Daniel, 700 years before Christ was born..... You
don't believe Him? How could you believe Jesus? You don't,
that's the true point. Your pride is over your nose, cannot
even smell the truth dog.
Daniel, your writings have the stench of death all about them.
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