The Catholic Church�s grim history of ignoring priestly pedophilia � and silencing would-be whistleblowers

[Mattb]

The Catholic Church’s grim history of ignoring priestly pedophilia –
and silencing would-be whistleblowers

Widespread public shock followed the recent release of the
Pennsylvania grand jury report that identified more than 1,000 child
victims of clergy sexual abuse. In fact, as I know through my
research, the Vatican and its American bishops have known about the
problem of priestly pedophilia since at least the 1950s. And the
Church has consistently silenced would-be whistleblowers from within
its own ranks.

In the memory of many Americans, the only comparable scandal was in
Massachusetts, where, in 2002, the Boston Globe published more than
600 articles about abuses under the administration of Cardinal Bernard
Law. That investigation was immortalized in the 2015 award-winning
film, “Spotlight.”

What many Americans don’t remember, however, are other similar
scandals, some even more dramatic and national in scope.

Doubling down on secrecy

While the problem of priestly pedophilia might be centuries old, the
modern paper trail began only after World War II, when “treatment
centers” appeared for rehabilitating abusive priests. Instead of
increased transparency, bishops, at the same time, developed methods
for denying and hiding allegations of child sexual abuse.

During the 1950s and 1960s, bishops from around the U.S. began
referring abusive priests to church-run medical centers, so that they
could receive evaluation and care without disclosing their crimes to
independent clinicians.

https://theconversation.com/the-catholic-churchs-grim-history-of-ignoring-priestly-pedophilia-and-silencing-would-be-whistleblowers-102387

What does this say aboutthe core values of the RCC and have they
changed?

Would you trust your kids with the RCC?

[P+Barker]

Post by Mattb
The Catholic Church’s grim history of ignoring priestly pedophilia –
and silencing would-be whistleblowers
Widespread public shock followed the recent release of the
Pennsylvania grand jury report that identified more than 1,000 child
victims of clergy sexual abuse

The findings of the Phila Grand Jury were BULL SHIT.
As I've told you many times.
Even back to 2011.
Stop yer whining.

Your stupid grand jury also claimed there were 37 active duty child
abuser priests in Philadelphia.
Let's look at those 37 priests.

Post by Mattb
Father Stanley Gana 79

Gana was removed from the ministry in 2002 and totally defrocked in
2006. Rev. Stanley Gana became a priest in 1970 and was defrocked
3/21/2006. He was also a chaplain of the Boy Scouts of America. Rev.
Stanley, who was accused in the grand-jury report of raping and
molesting "countless boys in a succession of Philadelphia Archdiocese
parishes," had been living in central Florida in 2005 and 2006 with a
friend who was unaware of the grand-jury's findings, the Orlando
Sentinel reported last August. postedon Friday, April 04, 2008

Post by Mattb
Father Raymond Leneweaver 101
By the time Fr. Leneweaver was transferred for the fourth time, the
Archdiocese Chancellor, Francis J. Statkus, noted in a September 1980
letter that "he was appointed to this area of the diocese because it is
one of the few remaining areas where his scandalous action may not be
known."

Father Leneweaver, then a teacher at Cardinal O'Hara High School as a
result of his reassignment in 1966, claimed that his molestation of
Jeffrey for more than two years had been a temporary lapse. He blamed
depression following his first assignment, where he had lived with an
alcoholic priest and had had to minister to "the Negroes." Father
Leneweaver also claimed that his parents had died shortly before he
began molesting Jeffrey. The priest often used his parents - who, in
fact, were not dead in 1968 - to explain the "difficulties" in his
life. Archdiocese officials did not report Fr. Leneweaver's criminal
abuse of multiple minors to the police. Nor did they initiate
proceedings to remove Fr. Leneweaver from the priesthood. Instead, on
May 7, 1975, Cardinal Krol granted Fr. Leneweaver leave to take care
of his still-alive parents in Florida and to seek treatment there.
In December 1980, he asked for a permanent leave of absence. In a
notation to a memo approving Fr. Leneweaver's leave, Cardinal Krol
wrote: His problem is not occupational or geographical & will follow
him wherever he goes. He should be convinced that his orientation is
an acquired preference for a particular method of satisfying a normal
human appetite. - An appetite which is totally incompatible with vow
of chastity + commitment to celibacy.

In 1997, Fr. Leneweaver wrote directly to Cardinal Bevilacqua,
expressing his interest in resuming active ministry .He sent the
Cardinal what Vicar for Administration Joseph Cistone referred to as
"a rather large packet of materials." It contained the priest's
resume; several letters of reference for teaching positions, at least
one written by an Archdiocese employee; a letter thanking the priest
for his volunteer work at a homeless shelter for youth; and a clean
criminal history record obtained by Fr. Leneweaver when he applied for
a teaching position in New Jersey in 1993.

In 1998, The Secretary for Clergy recommended that the Archdiocese
write Fr. Leneweaver and explain that "for his own welfare and the
welfare of the Church," his request to return to ministry could not be
granted.

On January 29, 2002, Msgrs. Lynn and Cistone were informed by memo
that Fr. Leneweaver had been teaching Latin and History full-time for
three years in the Philadelphia suburbs -in the North Penn and Central
Bucks School Districts.

Post by Mattb
Father Joseph Gausch 117

Was ordained in 1945..... Was sent to therapy in 1948.
Was accused of allegations in 1994. Was investigated.
Father Joe Gausch DIED 12 years ago.

Post by Mattb
Father Nicholas Cudemo 125

Was ordained in 1963. He retired in 1999.
He had his faculties restricted in 2002.
He liked the ladies.

Post by Mattb
Father Peter Dunne 157

Was ordained in 1954. The diocese is informed he is a pedophile in
1994.
Father Pete attempted to buy the silence of his victims.
Father Pete requested unresticted retirement. He was denied.
Paperwork was sumitted to Laicize him in 1994.
Dunne retired to a cabin in 1995.

Post by Mattb
Father James Brzyski 177

In 1984 he was confronted with numerous allegations. Father B
asked to resign. He was told that he could not. He needed to
confront his sins and try to work out his problems. He was sent to
therapy. He lied and convinced his superiors he was cured.
Finally he was removed from active ministry in the 1990's
And in 2004, his case was sent for forced laicization.

Post by Mattb
Father David Sicoli 197

Was accused of sexual abuse in the 1970's and 1980's.
He was sent to therapy and couseling on several occasions.
In 2002, he was caught living with 2 boys in the rectory.
He had a bagful of excuses.
Allegations could not be substantiated. Finally.....
In 2004, he was forcibly removed from the ministry.
He refused to appear before the grand jury.

Post by Mattb
Father John Connor 223

ordained in 1952. Was arrested in 1994. Was sent to therapy.
The DA did not indict, did not prosecute.
in 1993, he and the diocese were sued.
He was removed from the ministry and confined.
In the summer of 1991, Rome informed O'Connor that he was dismissed
from the Dominicans. O'Connor packed his bags and left the River
Forest Priory forever.

Post by Mattb
Father Gerard Chambers 233

Ordained in 1934, Fr. Chambers was accused of molesting numerous altar
boys, and anally and orally raping at least one, during 40 years as a
priest in the Archdiocese. The priest was placed on permanent health
leave in 1963, at the age of 56. He died in 1974. His records were
destroyed in the 90's. Three more victims came forward in 2002.

--------------------------------------------

If you really want to discuss more dead priests accused of being in
active ministry, please let me know. We can continue...........
Right now, I'm getting tired.

Post by Mattb
Father Michael McCarthy 243
Father Albert Kostelnick 255
Father Edward DePaoli 261
Monsignor David Walls 277
Father Francis Rogers 289
Father Francis Trauger 303
Father John Schmeer 313
Monsignor Francis Giliberti 321
Father John Mulholland 327
Monsignor John Gillespie 339
Monsignor Leonard Furmanski 347
Father John Delli Carpini 359
Father Thomas Wisniewski 365
Father Thomas Smith 373
Father Francis Gallagher 381
Father Thomas Shea 387
Father John Cannon 393
Father Michael Bolesta 397
Father Robert Brennan 405

In fact, we discovered that there have been at least 37 such

Post by Mattb
priests who have been
kept in assignments that expose them to children. Ten of these priests
have
http://www.phila.gov/districtattorney/PDFs/clergyAbuse2-finalReport.pdf

And many of the 37 priests on active duty have been dead for 35 years.

[Michael McLean]

Post by P+Barker

The Catholic Church’s grim history of ignoring priestly pedophilia –
and silencing would-be whistleblowers
Widespread public shock followed the recent release of the
Pennsylvania grand jury report that identified more than 1,000 child
victims of clergy sexual abuse

The findings of the Phila Grand Jury were BULL SHIT.
As I've told you many times.
Even back to 2011.
Stop yer whining.
Your stupid grand jury also claimed there were 37 active duty child
abuser priests in Philadelphia.
Let's look at those 37 priests.

Father Stanley Gana 79

Gana was removed from the ministry in 2002 and totally defrocked in
2006. Rev. Stanley Gana became a priest in 1970 and was defrocked
3/21/2006. He was also a chaplain of the Boy Scouts of America. Rev.
Stanley, who was accused in the grand-jury report of raping and
molesting "countless boys in a succession of Philadelphia Archdiocese
parishes," had been living in central Florida in 2005 and 2006 with a
friend who was unaware of the grand-jury's findings, the Orlando
Sentinel reported last August. postedon Friday, April 04, 2008

Father Raymond Leneweaver 101
By the time Fr. Leneweaver was transferred for the fourth time, the
Archdiocese Chancellor, Francis J. Statkus, noted in a September 1980
letter that "he was appointed to this area of the diocese because it is
one of the few remaining areas where his scandalous action may not be
known."

Father Leneweaver, then a teacher at Cardinal O'Hara High School as a
result of his reassignment in 1966, claimed that his molestation of
Jeffrey for more than two years had been a temporary lapse. He blamed
depression following his first assignment, where he had lived with an
alcoholic priest and had had to minister to "the Negroes." Father
Leneweaver also claimed that his parents had died shortly before he
began molesting Jeffrey. The priest often used his parents - who, in
fact, were not dead in 1968 - to explain the "difficulties" in his
life. Archdiocese officials did not report Fr. Leneweaver's criminal
abuse of multiple minors to the police. Nor did they initiate
proceedings to remove Fr. Leneweaver from the priesthood. Instead, on
May 7, 1975, Cardinal Krol granted Fr. Leneweaver leave to take care
of his still-alive parents in Florida and to seek treatment there.
In December 1980, he asked for a permanent leave of absence. In a
notation to a memo approving Fr. Leneweaver's leave, Cardinal Krol
wrote: His problem is not occupational or geographical & will follow
him wherever he goes. He should be convinced that his orientation is
an acquired preference for a particular method of satisfying a normal
human appetite. - An appetite which is totally incompatible with vow
of chastity + commitment to celibacy.
In 1997, Fr. Leneweaver wrote directly to Cardinal Bevilacqua,
expressing his interest in resuming active ministry .He sent the
Cardinal what Vicar for Administration Joseph Cistone referred to as
"a rather large packet of materials." It contained the priest's
resume; several letters of reference for teaching positions, at least
one written by an Archdiocese employee; a letter thanking the priest
for his volunteer work at a homeless shelter for youth; and a clean
criminal history record obtained by Fr. Leneweaver when he applied for
a teaching position in New Jersey in 1993.
In 1998, The Secretary for Clergy recommended that the Archdiocese
write Fr. Leneweaver and explain that "for his own welfare and the
welfare of the Church," his request to return to ministry could not be
granted.
On January 29, 2002, Msgrs. Lynn and Cistone were informed by memo
that Fr. Leneweaver had been teaching Latin and History full-time for
three years in the Philadelphia suburbs -in the North Penn and Central
Bucks School Districts.

Father Joseph Gausch 117

Was ordained in 1945..... Was sent to therapy in 1948.
Was accused of allegations in 1994. Was investigated.
Father Joe Gausch DIED 12 years ago.

Father Nicholas Cudemo 125

Was ordained in 1963. He retired in 1999.
He had his faculties restricted in 2002.
He liked the ladies.

Father Peter Dunne 157

Was ordained in 1954. The diocese is informed he is a pedophile in
1994.
Father Pete attempted to buy the silence of his victims.
Father Pete requested unresticted retirement. He was denied.
Paperwork was sumitted to Laicize him in 1994.
Dunne retired to a cabin in 1995.

Father James Brzyski 177

In 1984 he was confronted with numerous allegations. Father B
asked to resign. He was told that he could not. He needed to
confront his sins and try to work out his problems. He was sent to
therapy. He lied and convinced his superiors he was cured.
Finally he was removed from active ministry in the 1990's
And in 2004, his case was sent for forced laicization.

Father David Sicoli 197

Was accused of sexual abuse in the 1970's and 1980's.
He was sent to therapy and couseling on several occasions.
In 2002, he was caught living with 2 boys in the rectory.
He had a bagful of excuses.
Allegations could not be substantiated. Finally.....
In 2004, he was forcibly removed from the ministry.
He refused to appear before the grand jury.

Father John Connor 223

ordained in 1952. Was arrested in 1994. Was sent to therapy.
The DA did not indict, did not prosecute.
in 1993, he and the diocese were sued.
He was removed from the ministry and confined.
In the summer of 1991, Rome informed O'Connor that he was dismissed
from the Dominicans. O'Connor packed his bags and left the River
Forest Priory forever.

Father Gerard Chambers 233

Ordained in 1934, Fr. Chambers was accused of molesting numerous altar
boys, and anally and orally raping at least one, during 40 years as a
priest in the Archdiocese. The priest was placed on permanent health
leave in 1963, at the age of 56. He died in 1974. His records were
destroyed in the 90's. Three more victims came forward in 2002.
--------------------------------------------
If you really want to discuss more dead priests accused of being in
active ministry, please let me know. We can continue...........
Right now, I'm getting tired.

Father Michael McCarthy 243
Father Albert Kostelnick 255
Father Edward DePaoli 261
Monsignor David Walls 277
Father Francis Rogers 289
Father Francis Trauger 303
Father John Schmeer 313
Monsignor Francis Giliberti 321
Father John Mulholland 327
Monsignor John Gillespie 339
Monsignor Leonard Furmanski 347
Father John Delli Carpini 359
Father Thomas Wisniewski 365
Father Thomas Smith 373
Father Francis Gallagher 381
Father Thomas Shea 387
Father John Cannon 393
Father Michael Bolesta 397
Father Robert Brennan 405

In fact, we discovered that there have been at least 37 such

priests who have been
kept in assignments that expose them to children. Ten of these priests
have
http://www.phila.gov/districtattorney/PDFs/clergyAbuse2-finalReport.pdf

And many of the 37 priests on active duty have been dead for 35 years.

The mind boggles as to what came before...them.

The biggest problem with you, Buddy Barker, is that you try to sweep a
mile high pile of excrement under a carpet.

Your church is not the Church of Jesus Christ, and neither is the
Protestant one.

It is that simple.






Michael McLean
--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"Sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

[P+Barker]

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
And many of the 37 priests on active duty have been dead for 35 years.

The mind boggles as to what came before...them.

I agree.
What makes you think with such stupidity.

Post by Michael McLean
The biggest problem with you, Buddy Barker, is that you try to sweep a
mile high pile of excrement under a carpet.
Your church is not the Church of Jesus Christ, and neither is the
Protestant one.

As I've said over 100 times:

Admit what?
Of course I admit that some evil fag priests abused their position
and sexually abused children.
Of course I admit that bishops were dumbfounded as to what
they should do. Since most victims and families wanted to keep
the abuse quiet, the bishops looked for other solutions. They sought
advice from the leading shrinks of the day, and by God, they were
stupid enough to follow that advice. And because of this, the church
has paid out $ 3 Billion to the lawyers of the victims who came
forward 40 years after the fact.

Those bishops sent those offending evil fag priests to treatment
centers were they were "cured." Since the RCC is in the forgiveness
business, not the punishment business, they again made more
mistakes by believing the repentant evil fag priest was sorry for
his sins, and they allowed him to remain in the ministry.
I admit this was a bad decision on the part of the bishops

This is all fact. Of course I admit it.
The evil fag priests were bad. Of course I admit it.
The bishops were stupid and made the wrong choices. I admit that.

The fact is that YOU refuse to admit that perhaps the RCC
made its mistakes, admitted its mistakes, paid for those mistakes,
and has made positive corrective actions to prevent this from
ever happening again. No fag priest is now allowed in the ministry.
As soon as any priest is accused of misconduct, he is immediately
removed from the ministry. The bishops all have marching orders
to cooperate with civil authorities when it comes to this crime.

You don't want to let this go, because you have another agenda
against the RCC. You feel you were wronged by the RCC in some
way - perhaps because they informed you that YOU are totally
responsible for your bad decisions and your actions. You have
some sort of sin that you feel should be accepted by the church.
And you are pissed because the RCC refuses to let you off the hook.
What is your particular sin? Abortion? Divorce? Homosexual acts?
What is it?

Most Catholics were shocked when the crisis first came about.
They were disturbed, wary, and wanted explanations.
There were no good excuses. However, after studying the
problem, most Catholics have just come to realize that the
priests that they held so high on pedestals were merely humans.
And, the bishops were dumbstruck on how to handle the problem.
Most Catholics have now accepted the fact that mistakes were
made, poor decisions, and some hushing up to protect the
victims and accused. The bishops looked for quiet solutions,
and they found out that there aren't any.
Protocols have changed, and those same decisions will
never be made again.
Most Catholics are watching, praying and will remain vigilant.
The outsiders are still trying to raise mobs and start bonfires.

[Michael McLean]

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
And many of the 37 priests on active duty have been dead for 35 years.

The mind boggles as to what came before...them.

I agree.
What makes you think with such stupidity.

Stupidity is ignoring the horrendous implications, the fact of what your
forefathers built their faith in your church upon.

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean
The biggest problem with you, Buddy Barker, is that you try to sweep a
mile high pile of excrement under a carpet.
Your church is not the Church of Jesus Christ, and neither is the
Protestant one.

Admit what?
Of course I admit that some evil fag priests

All sinners are evil.

Post by P+Barker
abused their position
and sexually abused children.
Of course I admit that bishops were dumbfounded as to what
they should do. Since most victims and families wanted to keep
the abuse quiet, the bishops looked for other solutions. They sought
advice from the leading shrinks of the day, and by God, they were
stupid enough to follow that advice. And because of this, the church
has paid out $ 3 Billion to the lawyers of the victims who came
forward 40 years after the fact.

Perhaps your "church" should have sought a higher power than that of man?

Post by P+Barker
Those bishops sent those offending evil fag priests to treatment
centers were they were "cured."

You can't cure sin, Buddy. It must be destroyed.

The human heart has to be cleansed of all unrighteousness...all...and
only God can do that. A holiday resort within your church for
'indulgences' doesn't do squat.

Post by P+Barker
Since the RCC is in the forgiveness
business, not the punishment business, they again made more
mistakes by believing the repentant evil fag priest was sorry for
his sins, and they allowed him to remain in the ministry.
I admit this was a bad decision on the part of the bishops

Not only do you condemn your church sanctified [quote] "evil fag
priests", but you write off your bishops - your church sanctified
leaders - as bad decision makers.

Who the hell do you think you are, Barker, Robert the Holy sinner Who??

If you condemn your neighbour for sin and you condemn yourself. You,
like so many religious others, see yourself as a better class of sinner.

There again are those implications (fruit) mentioned earlier from your
so called church!

Post by P+Barker
This is all fact. Of course I admit it.

You splash around in the shallows of irrelevance and make it sound like
you are saying something. Or as the Lord Jesus said, you strain at a
gnat and swallow a camel.

Post by P+Barker
The evil fag priests were bad. Of course I admit it.
The bishops were stupid and made the wrong choices. I admit that.

God help you!

Post by P+Barker
The fact is that YOU refuse to admit that perhaps the RCC
made its mistakes, admitted its mistakes, paid for those mistakes,
and has made positive corrective actions to prevent this from
ever happening again. No fag priest is now allowed in the ministry.
As soon as any priest is accused of misconduct, he is immediately
removed from the ministry. The bishops all have marching orders
to cooperate with civil authorities when it comes to this crime.
You don't want to let this go, because you have another agenda
against the RCC. You feel you were wronged by the RCC in some
way - perhaps because they informed you that YOU are totally
responsible for your bad decisions and your actions. You have
some sort of sin that you feel should be accepted by the church.
And you are pissed because the RCC refuses to let you off the hook.
What is your particular sin? Abortion? Divorce? Homosexual acts?
What is it?

Loving God will all my heart, soul, and mind, and if your church did
that, you would not have to come up with all the excuses.

Post by P+Barker
Most Catholics were shocked when the crisis first came about.
They were disturbed, wary, and wanted explanations.
There were no good excuses. However, after studying the
problem, most Catholics have just come to realize that the
priests that they held so high on pedestals were merely humans.
And, the bishops were dumbstruck on how to handle the problem.
Most Catholics have now accepted the fact that mistakes were
made, poor decisions, and some hushing up to protect the
victims and accused. The bishops looked for quiet solutions,
and they found out that there aren't any.
Protocols have changed, and those same decisions will
never be made again.
Most Catholics are watching, praying and will remain vigilant.
The outsiders are still trying to raise mobs and start bonfires.

You can't fix what you are!

If you were truly surrendered to God as your church presents, you
wouldn't have any "problems" and people wouldn't be left in the wake of
your sin!

It is, and is always as simple as that.





Michael McLean
--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"Sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

[P+Barker]

On Wed, 5 Oct 2022 07:46:02 +1100, Michael McLean

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
And many of the 37 priests on active duty have been dead for 35 years.

The mind boggles as to what came before...them.

I agree.
What makes you think with such stupidity.

Stupidity is ignoring the horrendous implications, the fact of what your
forefathers built their faith in your church upon.

What implications?
Please explain.
The Phila Grand Jury provided a false story.

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean
The biggest problem with you, Buddy Barker, is that you try to sweep a
mile high pile of excrement under a carpet.
Your church is not the Church of Jesus Christ, and neither is the
Protestant one.

Admit what?
Of course I admit that some evil fag priests

All sinners are evil.

Of course they are.
I am speaking about a "FEW" evil fag priests.
They are sinners.
They are evil.
That does not imply that all priests are evil.

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
abused their position
and sexually abused children.
Of course I admit that bishops were dumbfounded as to what
they should do. Since most victims and families wanted to keep
the abuse quiet, the bishops looked for other solutions. They sought
advice from the leading shrinks of the day, and by God, they were
stupid enough to follow that advice. And because of this, the church
has paid out $ 3 Billion to the lawyers of the victims who came
forward 40 years after the fact.

Perhaps your "church" should have sought a higher power than that of man?

Perhaps they did.
Should we blame God for giving men a free will?
Should we blame the church for the sins that some men committed?

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
Those bishops sent those offending evil fag priests to treatment
centers were they were "cured."

You can't cure sin, Buddy. It must be destroyed.

I didn't say that.
Over 50 uears ago APA leaders, in the glare of a national media
spotlight, took the controversial step of deleting homosexuality from
the Association's compendium of psychiatric disorders. That action
launched APA on a quarter century of efforts to end discrimination
against homosexuals and coincided with the increasing willingness of
gay and lesbian psychiatrists to insist openly that APA must listen to
them.
If there was an official kickoff for APA's newly energized gay
psychiatrists, it was the 1970 annual meeting in San Francisco,
Sabshin suggested, where Gay Liberation Front activists along with
political protesters in support of other social and political causes
disrupted the meeting. "It was guerilla theater" at that meeting and
the one held in Washington, D.C., the next year, he said.
In 1972, for the first time, the annual meeting featured exhibits and
discussions spotlighting positive aspects of the lives of gay
individuals. Also during that year well-known psychiatrists such as
Richard Green, M.D., Judd Marmor, M.D., and John Spiegel, M.D., began
openly challenging psychiatrists' attitudes toward and treatment of
homosexual patients, Sabshin observed. Marmor, a psychoanalyst who
would soon be elected APA president, played a particularly significant
role in trying to bridge the chasm that existed between his
psychoanalytic colleagues and psychiatrists who were convinced that
homosexuality was not an illness.
Sabshin credited the chair of APA's Committee on Nomenclature in the
early 1970s, Robert Spitzer, M.D., with playing a pivotal role in
propelling the evolution of APA's position on homosexuality. That
committee was charged with revising the initial version of DSM, and
Spitzer-armed with research showing there were no valid data to link
homosexuality and mental illness-advocated forcefully for the strategy
of deleting homosexuality from the disorders list and replacing it
with a new one called "sexual orientation disturbance."
In a key vote in December 1973, the Board of Trustees overwhelmingly
endorsed Spitzer's recommendation. Opponents of the decision attempted
to overturn it with a referendum of the APA membership in early
1974-just as Sabshin was beginning his 23-year tenure as APA medical
director. The Board's decision to delete homosexuality from the
diagnostic manual was supported by 58 percent of the membership.
At the same time the debates over sexual orientation and
psychopathology were occurring, a small group of gay psychiatrists was
holding informal meetings to explore forming an organization that
would heighten their visibility and that of gay patients.
In the mid 1980s APA formed a task force on homosexuality issues, and
by that time, Cabaj emphasized, it was able to focus not on the
psychopathology battle but on homophobia, discrimination, and
stereotyping. The task force was eventually elevated to a permanent
component, the Committee on Gay, Lesbian, and Bisexual Issues. One of
its earliest chairs was San Francisco psychiatrist James Krajeski,
M.D., who this month became editor of Psychiatric News.
While gay psychiatrists "now have a place at the table," APA and
psychiatry in general will still have to address several troubling
issues related to homosexuality, said Rubin, a research fellow at UCLA
and member of the APA Committee on Gay, Lesbian, and Bisexual Issues.
Prominent on this list is the large number of psychiatry residency
programs where nothing is taught about homosexuality or where the
program is "gay for a day," that is, where a few hours are devoted to
this topic often via a guest speaker. In addition, psychiatrists will
be called upon to take a leadership role in discussions of the
relative influence of biological factors on the development of sexual
orientation, he said.
http://www.psych.org/pnews/98-07-17/dsm.html

Post by Michael McLean
The human heart has to be cleansed of all unrighteousness...all...and
only God can do that. A holiday resort within your church for
'indulgences' doesn't do squat.

Is your heart cleansed?
How can you insure that someone else's heart has be cleansed?
Sometimes you must utilize "experts" in the field to determine if
something is correct or not?

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
Since the RCC is in the forgiveness
business, not the punishment business, they again made more
mistakes by believing the repentant evil fag priest was sorry for
his sins, and they allowed him to remain in the ministry.
I admit this was a bad decision on the part of the bishops

Not only do you condemn your church sanctified [quote] "evil fag
priests", but you write off your bishops - your church sanctified
leaders - as bad decision makers.

There are evil fags in every creed and culture.
Look around.
Talk to yer buddy, matt.
And... everyone makes mistakes.
Everyone sins. Even you.
Jesus said so.
1 John 1:8
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not
in us.

Genesis 6:12
God looked on the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had
corrupted their way upon the earth.

1 Kings 8:46
“When they sin against You (for there is no man who does not sin) and
You are angry with them and deliver them to an enemy, so that they
take them away captive to the land of the enemy, far off or near;

Ecclesiastes 7:20
Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does
good and who never sins.

Romans 3:10
as it is written,
“There is none righteous, not even one;

Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Galatians 3:22
But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise
by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Post by Michael McLean
Who the hell do you think you are, Barker, Robert the Holy sinner Who??

I am Patrick Barker, a practicing Catholic.

Post by Michael McLean
If you condemn your neighbour for sin and you condemn yourself. You,
like so many religious others, see yourself as a better class of sinner.

I do not have the ability to condemn others.
And, I am not better than anyone, except maybe... you.

Post by Michael McLean
There again are those implications (fruit) mentioned earlier from your
so called church!

If you insist on limiting the second law to applications involving
thermal entropy, and that the only entropy is thermal entropy, than
Sal is right that the second law has little to say about the emergence
of life on Earth. But it is not just the "creationists" who apply it
much more generally, many violent opponents of ID (including Asimov,
Dawkins, Styer and Bunn) agree that this emergence does represent a
decrease in "entropy" in the more general sense, they just argue that
this decrease is compensated by increases outside our open system, an
argument that is so widely used that I created the video below,
Evolution is a Natural Process Running Backward to address it a few
months ago.

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
This is all fact. Of course I admit it.

You splash around in the shallows of irrelevance and make it sound like
you are saying something. Or as the Lord Jesus said, you strain at a
gnat and swallow a camel.

It must be Tuesday, I've brought my tomato sauce and a surly duck.
Hardly any Wednesdays sing on Thursdays without a choir.

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
The evil fag priests were bad. Of course I admit it.
The bishops were stupid and made the wrong choices. I admit that.

God help you!

God always helps me.

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
The fact is that YOU refuse to admit that perhaps the RCC
made its mistakes, admitted its mistakes, paid for those mistakes,
and has made positive corrective actions to prevent this from
ever happening again. No fag priest is now allowed in the ministry.
As soon as any priest is accused of misconduct, he is immediately
removed from the ministry. The bishops all have marching orders
to cooperate with civil authorities when it comes to this crime.
You don't want to let this go, because you have another agenda
against the RCC. You feel you were wronged by the RCC in some
way - perhaps because they informed you that YOU are totally
responsible for your bad decisions and your actions. You have
some sort of sin that you feel should be accepted by the church.
And you are pissed because the RCC refuses to let you off the hook.
What is your particular sin? Abortion? Divorce? Homosexual acts?
What is it?

Loving God will all my heart, soul, and mind, and if your church did
that, you would not have to come up with all the excuses.

What is your particular sin? Abortion? Divorce? Homosexual acts?
What is it?

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
Most Catholics were shocked when the crisis first came about.
They were disturbed, wary, and wanted explanations.
There were no good excuses. However, after studying the
problem, most Catholics have just come to realize that the
priests that they held so high on pedestals were merely humans.
And, the bishops were dumbstruck on how to handle the problem.
Most Catholics have now accepted the fact that mistakes were
made, poor decisions, and some hushing up to protect the
victims and accused. The bishops looked for quiet solutions,
and they found out that there aren't any.
Protocols have changed, and those same decisions will
never be made again.
Most Catholics are watching, praying and will remain vigilant.
The outsiders are still trying to raise mobs and start bonfires.

You can't fix what you are!

You can't fix what you are!

Post by Michael McLean
If you were truly surrendered to God as your church presents, you
wouldn't have any "problems" and people wouldn't be left in the wake of
your sin!

If you were truly surrendered to God as your church presents, you
wouldn't have any "problems" and people wouldn't be left in the wake
of your sin!

[Michael McLean]

Post by P+Barker
On Wed, 5 Oct 2022 07:46:02 +1100, Michael McLean

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
And many of the 37 priests on active duty have been dead for 35 years.

The mind boggles as to what came before...them.

I agree.
What makes you think with such stupidity.

Stupidity is ignoring the horrendous implications, the fact of what your
forefathers built their faith in your church upon.

What implications?
Please explain.

Really?

Luk_6:43  For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth
a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Post by P+Barker
The Phila Grand Jury provided a false story.

Not relevant.

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean
The biggest problem with you, Buddy Barker, is that you try to sweep a
mile high pile of excrement under a carpet.
Your church is not the Church of Jesus Christ, and neither is the
Protestant one.

Admit what?
Of course I admit that some evil fag priests

All sinners are evil.

Of course they are.
I am speaking about a "FEW" evil fag priests.
They are sinners.
They are evil.
That does not imply that all priests are evil.

Irrelevant.

You point your finger at them, being a sinner yourself. Now, that is
relevant to the Lord. Mary wouldn't be too impressed either! :-).

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
abused their position
and sexually abused children.
Of course I admit that bishops were dumbfounded as to what
they should do. Since most victims and families wanted to keep
the abuse quiet, the bishops looked for other solutions. They sought
advice from the leading shrinks of the day, and by God, they were
stupid enough to follow that advice. And because of this, the church
has paid out $ 3 Billion to the lawyers of the victims who came
forward 40 years after the fact.

Perhaps your "church" should have sought a higher power than that of man?

Perhaps they did.

Obviously they didn't. Unless God's will is flawed??

Post by P+Barker
Should we blame God for giving men a free will?
Should we blame the church for the sins that some men committed?

You judge heavenly things by earthly standards, Patrick.

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
Those bishops sent those offending evil fag priests to treatment
centers were they were "cured."

You can't cure sin, Buddy. It must be destroyed.

I didn't say that.

But God did.

Post by P+Barker
Over 50 uears ago APA leaders, in the glare of a national media
spotlight, took the controversial step of deleting homosexuality from
the Association's compendium of psychiatric disorders. That action
launched APA on a quarter century of efforts to end discrimination
against homosexuals and coincided with the increasing willingness of
gay and lesbian psychiatrists to insist openly that APA must listen to
them.
If there was an official kickoff for APA's newly energized gay
psychiatrists, it was the 1970 annual meeting in San Francisco,
Sabshin suggested, where Gay Liberation Front activists along with
political protesters in support of other social and political causes
disrupted the meeting. "It was guerilla theater" at that meeting and
the one held in Washington, D.C., the next year, he said.
In 1972, for the first time, the annual meeting featured exhibits and
discussions spotlighting positive aspects of the lives of gay
individuals. Also during that year well-known psychiatrists such as
Richard Green, M.D., Judd Marmor, M.D., and John Spiegel, M.D., began
openly challenging psychiatrists' attitudes toward and treatment of
homosexual patients, Sabshin observed. Marmor, a psychoanalyst who
would soon be elected APA president, played a particularly significant
role in trying to bridge the chasm that existed between his
psychoanalytic colleagues and psychiatrists who were convinced that
homosexuality was not an illness.
Sabshin credited the chair of APA's Committee on Nomenclature in the
early 1970s, Robert Spitzer, M.D., with playing a pivotal role in
propelling the evolution of APA's position on homosexuality. That
committee was charged with revising the initial version of DSM, and
Spitzer-armed with research showing there were no valid data to link
homosexuality and mental illness-advocated forcefully for the strategy
of deleting homosexuality from the disorders list and replacing it
with a new one called "sexual orientation disturbance."
In a key vote in December 1973, the Board of Trustees overwhelmingly
endorsed Spitzer's recommendation. Opponents of the decision attempted
to overturn it with a referendum of the APA membership in early
1974-just as Sabshin was beginning his 23-year tenure as APA medical
director. The Board's decision to delete homosexuality from the
diagnostic manual was supported by 58 percent of the membership.
At the same time the debates over sexual orientation and
psychopathology were occurring, a small group of gay psychiatrists was
holding informal meetings to explore forming an organization that
would heighten their visibility and that of gay patients.
In the mid 1980s APA formed a task force on homosexuality issues, and
by that time, Cabaj emphasized, it was able to focus not on the
psychopathology battle but on homophobia, discrimination, and
stereotyping. The task force was eventually elevated to a permanent
component, the Committee on Gay, Lesbian, and Bisexual Issues. One of
its earliest chairs was San Francisco psychiatrist James Krajeski,
M.D., who this month became editor of Psychiatric News.
While gay psychiatrists "now have a place at the table," APA and
psychiatry in general will still have to address several troubling
issues related to homosexuality, said Rubin, a research fellow at UCLA
and member of the APA Committee on Gay, Lesbian, and Bisexual Issues.
Prominent on this list is the large number of psychiatry residency
programs where nothing is taught about homosexuality or where the
program is "gay for a day," that is, where a few hours are devoted to
this topic often via a guest speaker. In addition, psychiatrists will
be called upon to take a leadership role in discussions of the
relative influence of biological factors on the development of sexual
orientation, he said.
http://www.psych.org/pnews/98-07-17/dsm.html

Interesting, but the ways of man are not the path of righteousness,
neither can they be.

This is what you are not seeing, how men in your church seek to fix
things, when they can't. In fact, you put an impossible weight on their
shoulders with the expectation that they can and will.

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean
The human heart has to be cleansed of all unrighteousness...all...and
only God can do that. A holiday resort within your church for
'indulgences' doesn't do squat.

Is your heart cleansed?

Of course, how else can I speak the truth of God?! Is truth of myself??
Of course not! The truth I speak may not coincide with your ideals,
but why would you expect they would??

Post by P+Barker
How can you insure that someone else's heart has be cleansed?

When you walk in the light, you see. Praise be to God!

Post by P+Barker
Sometimes you must utilize "experts" in the field to determine if
something is correct or not?

No, God is the authority, and there is none other.

You are supposed to believe in Him, and Him alone. He will not share
His glory with another!

Isa 42:8  I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give
to another, neither my praise to graven images.

Believe it or not, that "psychiatry" is a graven image, a stone statue
not knowing anything.

I know, it is not "normal" in the fallen world.

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
Since the RCC is in the forgiveness
business, not the punishment business, they again made more
mistakes by believing the repentant evil fag priest was sorry for
his sins, and they allowed him to remain in the ministry.
I admit this was a bad decision on the part of the bishops

Not only do you condemn your church sanctified [quote] "evil fag
priests", but you write off your bishops - your church sanctified
leaders - as bad decision makers.

There are evil fags in every creed and culture.
Look around.
Talk to yer buddy, matt.
And... everyone makes mistakes.
Everyone sins. Even you.
Jesus said so.
1 John 1:8
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not
in us.

That was not the end of the matter.

Post by P+Barker
Genesis 6:12
God looked on the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had
corrupted their way upon the earth.

That was not the end of the matter.

Post by P+Barker
1 Kings 8:46
“When they sin against You (for there is no man who does not sin) and
You are angry with them and deliver them to an enemy, so that they
take them away captive to the land of the enemy, far off or near;

That was not the end of the matter.

Post by P+Barker
Ecclesiastes 7:20
Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does
good and who never sins.

That was not the end of the matter.

Post by P+Barker
Romans 3:10
as it is written,
“There is none righteous, not even one;

That was not the end of the matter.

Post by P+Barker
Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

That was not the end of the matter.

Post by P+Barker
Galatians 3:22
But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise
by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Now there is the end of the matter.

The Lord Jesus Christ did not die so that you, your church, or me, or
anybody had to remain as they are.

With God, all things are possible.

How comfortable are you in your skin, Patrick? I wasn't.

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean
Who the hell do you think you are, Barker, Robert the Holy sinner Who??

I am Patrick Barker, a practicing Catholic.

I think it is high time you became practicing believer in God.

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean
If you condemn your neighbour for sin and you condemn yourself. You,
like so many religious others, see yourself as a better class of sinner.

I do not have the ability to condemn others.
And, I am not better than anyone, except maybe... you.

Of course! :-).

What about those "evil fag priests"? :-).

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean
There again are those implications (fruit) mentioned earlier from your
so called church!

If you insist on limiting the second law to applications involving
thermal entropy, and that the only entropy is thermal entropy, than
Sal is right that the second law has little to say about the emergence
of life on Earth. But it is not just the "creationists" who apply it
much more generally, many violent opponents of ID (including Asimov,
Dawkins, Styer and Bunn) agree that this emergence does represent a
decrease in "entropy" in the more general sense, they just argue that
this decrease is compensated by increases outside our open system, an
argument that is so widely used that I created the video below,
Evolution is a Natural Process Running Backward to address it a few
months ago.

This doesn't appear to have anything to do with what we are talking about.

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
This is all fact. Of course I admit it.

You splash around in the shallows of irrelevance and make it sound like
you are saying something. Or as the Lord Jesus said, you strain at a
gnat and swallow a camel.

It must be Tuesday, I've brought my tomato sauce and a surly duck.
Hardly any Wednesdays sing on Thursdays without a choir.

Nevertheless, as above.

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
The evil fag priests were bad. Of course I admit it.
The bishops were stupid and made the wrong choices. I admit that.

God help you!

God always helps me.

Then the truth in this post is welcomed, or simply spurned and mocked?

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
The fact is that YOU refuse to admit that perhaps the RCC
made its mistakes, admitted its mistakes, paid for those mistakes,
and has made positive corrective actions to prevent this from
ever happening again. No fag priest is now allowed in the ministry.
As soon as any priest is accused of misconduct, he is immediately
removed from the ministry. The bishops all have marching orders
to cooperate with civil authorities when it comes to this crime.
You don't want to let this go, because you have another agenda
against the RCC. You feel you were wronged by the RCC in some
way - perhaps because they informed you that YOU are totally
responsible for your bad decisions and your actions. You have
some sort of sin that you feel should be accepted by the church.
And you are pissed because the RCC refuses to let you off the hook.
What is your particular sin? Abortion? Divorce? Homosexual acts?
What is it?

Loving God will all my heart, soul, and mind, and if your church did
that, you would not have to come up with all the excuses.

What is your particular sin? Abortion? Divorce? Homosexual acts?
What is it?

I was cleansed of all unrighteousness by the Lord.

Your quote, here you go...

Galatians 3:22

Post by P+Barker
But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise
by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

To be clean, Patrick, to be clean. But if you are happy to be remain
dirty, so be it.

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
Most Catholics were shocked when the crisis first came about.
They were disturbed, wary, and wanted explanations.
There were no good excuses. However, after studying the
problem, most Catholics have just come to realize that the
priests that they held so high on pedestals were merely humans.
And, the bishops were dumbstruck on how to handle the problem.
Most Catholics have now accepted the fact that mistakes were
made, poor decisions, and some hushing up to protect the
victims and accused. The bishops looked for quiet solutions,
and they found out that there aren't any.
Protocols have changed, and those same decisions will
never be made again.
Most Catholics are watching, praying and will remain vigilant.
The outsiders are still trying to raise mobs and start bonfires.

You can't fix what you are!

You can't fix what you are!

I didn't.

You are avoiding the context.

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean
If you were truly surrendered to God as your church presents, you
wouldn't have any "problems" and people wouldn't be left in the wake of
your sin!

If you were truly surrendered to God as your church presents, you
wouldn't have any "problems" and people wouldn't be left in the wake
of your sin!

You are avoiding the truth. And for the record, the true Church of
Jesus Christ is without spot or blemish, perfect, and ready waiting for
her husband...

Son 2:8  The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the
mountains, skipping upon the hills.

..to come, and has a wedding gown on without so much as a speck of dirt.

How do I know that? Well, you are going to have to ask my Beloved.




Michael McLean

PS: Just focus on what is truth, Patrick, and stop trying to defend the
undefendable.
--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"Sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

[P+Barker]

On Wed, 5 Oct 2022 09:58:39 +1100, Michael McLean

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
On Wed, 5 Oct 2022 07:46:02 +1100, Michael McLean

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
And many of the 37 priests on active duty have been dead for 35 years.

The mind boggles as to what came before...them.

I agree.
What makes you think with such stupidity.

Stupidity is ignoring the horrendous implications, the fact of what your
forefathers built their faith in your church upon.

What implications?
Please explain.

Really?
Luk_6:43  For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth
a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

OK. What does that have to do with faith in Jesus?

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
The Phila Grand Jury provided a false story.

Not relevant.

That is what this post is about.

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean
The biggest problem with you, Buddy Barker, is that you try to sweep a
mile high pile of excrement under a carpet.
Your church is not the Church of Jesus Christ, and neither is the
Protestant one.

Admit what?
Of course I admit that some evil fag priests

All sinners are evil.

Of course they are.
I am speaking about a "FEW" evil fag priests.
They are sinners.
They are evil.
That does not imply that all priests are evil.

Irrelevant.

That does not imply that all priests are evil.
That is what this post is about.

Post by Michael McLean
You point your finger at them, being a sinner yourself. Now, that is
relevant to the Lord. Mary wouldn't be too impressed either! :-).

All people sin. Even you.

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
abused their position
and sexually abused children.
Of course I admit that bishops were dumbfounded as to what
they should do. Since most victims and families wanted to keep
the abuse quiet, the bishops looked for other solutions. They sought
advice from the leading shrinks of the day, and by God, they were
stupid enough to follow that advice. And because of this, the church
has paid out $ 3 Billion to the lawyers of the victims who came
forward 40 years after the fact.

Perhaps your "church" should have sought a higher power than that of man?

Perhaps they did.

Obviously they didn't. Unless God's will is flawed??

Do you think God will prevent sin?
Try to remember that all people have free wills.

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
Should we blame God for giving men a free will?
Should we blame the church for the sins that some men committed?

You judge heavenly things by earthly standards, Patrick.

Should we blame the church for the sins that some men committed?

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
Those bishops sent those offending evil fag priests to treatment
centers were they were "cured."

You can't cure sin, Buddy. It must be destroyed.

I didn't say that.

But God did.

No, he didn't.
God has never given men the approval or ability to destroy sin.

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
Over 50 uears ago APA leaders, in the glare of a national media
spotlight, took the controversial step of deleting homosexuality from
the Association's compendium of psychiatric disorders. That action
launched APA on a quarter century of efforts to end discrimination
against homosexuals and coincided with the increasing willingness of
gay and lesbian psychiatrists to insist openly that APA must listen to
them.
If there was an official kickoff for APA's newly energized gay
psychiatrists, it was the 1970 annual meeting in San Francisco,
Sabshin suggested, where Gay Liberation Front activists along with
political protesters in support of other social and political causes
disrupted the meeting. "It was guerilla theater" at that meeting and
the one held in Washington, D.C., the next year, he said.
In 1972, for the first time, the annual meeting featured exhibits and
discussions spotlighting positive aspects of the lives of gay
individuals. Also during that year well-known psychiatrists such as
Richard Green, M.D., Judd Marmor, M.D., and John Spiegel, M.D., began
openly challenging psychiatrists' attitudes toward and treatment of
homosexual patients, Sabshin observed. Marmor, a psychoanalyst who
would soon be elected APA president, played a particularly significant
role in trying to bridge the chasm that existed between his
psychoanalytic colleagues and psychiatrists who were convinced that
homosexuality was not an illness.
Sabshin credited the chair of APA's Committee on Nomenclature in the
early 1970s, Robert Spitzer, M.D., with playing a pivotal role in
propelling the evolution of APA's position on homosexuality. That
committee was charged with revising the initial version of DSM, and
Spitzer-armed with research showing there were no valid data to link
homosexuality and mental illness-advocated forcefully for the strategy
of deleting homosexuality from the disorders list and replacing it
with a new one called "sexual orientation disturbance."
In a key vote in December 1973, the Board of Trustees overwhelmingly
endorsed Spitzer's recommendation. Opponents of the decision attempted
to overturn it with a referendum of the APA membership in early
1974-just as Sabshin was beginning his 23-year tenure as APA medical
director. The Board's decision to delete homosexuality from the
diagnostic manual was supported by 58 percent of the membership.
At the same time the debates over sexual orientation and
psychopathology were occurring, a small group of gay psychiatrists was
holding informal meetings to explore forming an organization that
would heighten their visibility and that of gay patients.
In the mid 1980s APA formed a task force on homosexuality issues, and
by that time, Cabaj emphasized, it was able to focus not on the
psychopathology battle but on homophobia, discrimination, and
stereotyping. The task force was eventually elevated to a permanent
component, the Committee on Gay, Lesbian, and Bisexual Issues. One of
its earliest chairs was San Francisco psychiatrist James Krajeski,
M.D., who this month became editor of Psychiatric News.
While gay psychiatrists "now have a place at the table," APA and
psychiatry in general will still have to address several troubling
issues related to homosexuality, said Rubin, a research fellow at UCLA
and member of the APA Committee on Gay, Lesbian, and Bisexual Issues.
Prominent on this list is the large number of psychiatry residency
programs where nothing is taught about homosexuality or where the
program is "gay for a day," that is, where a few hours are devoted to
this topic often via a guest speaker. In addition, psychiatrists will
be called upon to take a leadership role in discussions of the
relative influence of biological factors on the development of sexual
orientation, he said.
http://www.psych.org/pnews/98-07-17/dsm.html

Interesting, but the ways of man are not the path of righteousness,
neither can they be.

I didn't say that the ways of man are the path of righteousness.
Men err. Men sin.

Post by Michael McLean
This is what you are not seeing, how men in your church seek to fix
things, when they can't. In fact, you put an impossible weight on their
shoulders with the expectation that they can and will.

Of course men (in church and out of church) seek to fix things.
That is what we do.

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean
The human heart has to be cleansed of all unrighteousness...all...and
only God can do that. A holiday resort within your church for
'indulgences' doesn't do squat.

Is your heart cleansed?

Of course, how else can I speak the truth of God?! Is truth of myself??

<Yawn>

Post by Michael McLean
Of course not! The truth I speak may not coincide with your ideals,
but why would you expect they would??

Why do you claim to speak the truth?
Are you "seeking" to "FIX THINGS?"
You've already said man cannot fix things.
See above.

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
How can you insure that someone else's heart has be cleansed?

When you walk in the light, you see. Praise be to God!

<Yawn>
Praise the Lord and pass the potatoes.

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
Sometimes you must utilize "experts" in the field to determine if
something is correct or not?

No, God is the authority, and there is none other.

Then why are you here again?
You are no authority.
You said so yourself.

Post by Michael McLean
You are supposed to believe in Him, and Him alone. He will not share
His glory with another!

Praise the Lord and pass the potatoes.

Post by Michael McLean
Isa 42:8  I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give
to another, neither my praise to graven images.
Believe it or not, that "psychiatry" is a graven image, a stone statue
not knowing anything.
I know, it is not "normal" in the fallen world.

Then why are you here again?
You are no authority.
You said so yourself.

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
Since the RCC is in the forgiveness
business, not the punishment business, they again made more
mistakes by believing the repentant evil fag priest was sorry for
his sins, and they allowed him to remain in the ministry.
I admit this was a bad decision on the part of the bishops

Not only do you condemn your church sanctified [quote] "evil fag
priests", but you write off your bishops - your church sanctified
leaders - as bad decision makers.

There are evil fags in every creed and culture.
Look around.
Talk to yer buddy, matt.
And... everyone makes mistakes.
Everyone sins. Even you.
Jesus said so.
1 John 1:8
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not
in us.

That was not the end of the matter.

"You are supposed to believe in Him, and Him alone. He will not share
His glory with another!" <Mikey>

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
Genesis 6:12
God looked on the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had
corrupted their way upon the earth.

That was not the end of the matter.

"You are supposed to believe in Him, and Him alone. He will not share
His glory with another!" <Mikey>

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
1 Kings 8:46
“When they sin against You (for there is no man who does not sin) and
You are angry with them and deliver them to an enemy, so that they
take them away captive to the land of the enemy, far off or near;

That was not the end of the matter.

"You are supposed to believe in Him, and Him alone. He will not share
His glory with another!" <Mikey>

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
Ecclesiastes 7:20
Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does
good and who never sins.

That was not the end of the matter.

"You are supposed to believe in Him, and Him alone. He will not share
His glory with another!" <Mikey>

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
Romans 3:10
as it is written,
“There is none righteous, not even one;

That was not the end of the matter.

"You are supposed to believe in Him, and Him alone. He will not share
His glory with another!" <Mikey>

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

That was not the end of the matter.

"You are supposed to believe in Him, and Him alone. He will not share
His glory with another!" <Mikey>

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
Galatians 3:22
But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise
by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Now there is the end of the matter.

"You are supposed to believe in Him, and Him alone. He will not share
His glory with another!" <Mikey>

Post by Michael McLean
The Lord Jesus Christ did not die so that you, your church, or me, or
anybody had to remain as they are.
With God, all things are possible.
How comfortable are you in your skin, Patrick? I wasn't.

I am a practicing Catholic.
I try to make this world a better place.
I do not tell others they are going to Hell.
(except maybe you, heh heh)

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean
Who the hell do you think you are, Barker, Robert the Holy sinner Who??

I am Patrick Barker, a practicing Catholic.

I think it is high time you became practicing believer in God.

Catholics believe in God.
We also breath, eat, sleep, and perform work.

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean
If you condemn your neighbour for sin and you condemn yourself. You,
like so many religious others, see yourself as a better class of sinner.

I do not have the ability to condemn others.
And, I am not better than anyone, except maybe... you.

Of course! :-).
What about those "evil fag priests"? :-).

I'll let God judge them.
Any person who deliberately harms a child is evil.
I am allowed to voice my opinion on this.

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean
There again are those implications (fruit) mentioned earlier from your
so called church!

If you insist on limiting the second law to applications involving
thermal entropy, and that the only entropy is thermal entropy, than
Sal is right that the second law has little to say about the emergence
of life on Earth. But it is not just the "creationists" who apply it
much more generally, many violent opponents of ID (including Asimov,
Dawkins, Styer and Bunn) agree that this emergence does represent a
decrease in "entropy" in the more general sense, they just argue that
this decrease is compensated by increases outside our open system, an
argument that is so widely used that I created the video below,
Evolution is a Natural Process Running Backward to address it a few
months ago.

This doesn't appear to have anything to do with what we are talking about.

DUHHHHHHH.
Now you are starting to get my point about what you say to me.

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
This is all fact. Of course I admit it.

You splash around in the shallows of irrelevance and make it sound like
you are saying something. Or as the Lord Jesus said, you strain at a
gnat and swallow a camel.

It must be Tuesday, I've brought my tomato sauce and a surly duck.
Hardly any Wednesdays sing on Thursdays without a choir.

Nevertheless, as above.

DUHHHHHHH.
Now you are starting to get my point about what you say to me.

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
The evil fag priests were bad. Of course I admit it.
The bishops were stupid and made the wrong choices. I admit that.

God help you!

God always helps me.

Then the truth in this post is welcomed, or simply spurned and mocked?

Truth is truth.
I could care less if you welcome it or not.

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
The fact is that YOU refuse to admit that perhaps the RCC
made its mistakes, admitted its mistakes, paid for those mistakes,
and has made positive corrective actions to prevent this from
ever happening again. No fag priest is now allowed in the ministry.
As soon as any priest is accused of misconduct, he is immediately
removed from the ministry. The bishops all have marching orders
to cooperate with civil authorities when it comes to this crime.
You don't want to let this go, because you have another agenda
against the RCC. You feel you were wronged by the RCC in some
way - perhaps because they informed you that YOU are totally
responsible for your bad decisions and your actions. You have
some sort of sin that you feel should be accepted by the church.
And you are pissed because the RCC refuses to let you off the hook.
What is your particular sin? Abortion? Divorce? Homosexual acts?
What is it?

Loving God will all my heart, soul, and mind, and if your church did
that, you would not have to come up with all the excuses.

What is your particular sin? Abortion? Divorce? Homosexual acts?
What is it?

I was cleansed of all unrighteousness by the Lord.

Did the Lord tell you this?

Post by Michael McLean
Your quote, here you go...
Galatians 3:22

Post by P+Barker
But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise
by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

To be clean, Patrick, to be clean. But if you are happy to be remain
dirty, so be it.

Speak for yourself.
Do not judge me.
You don't have the authority.

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
Most Catholics were shocked when the crisis first came about.
They were disturbed, wary, and wanted explanations.
There were no good excuses. However, after studying the
problem, most Catholics have just come to realize that the
priests that they held so high on pedestals were merely humans.
And, the bishops were dumbstruck on how to handle the problem.
Most Catholics have now accepted the fact that mistakes were
made, poor decisions, and some hushing up to protect the
victims and accused. The bishops looked for quiet solutions,
and they found out that there aren't any.
Protocols have changed, and those same decisions will
never be made again.
Most Catholics are watching, praying and will remain vigilant.
The outsiders are still trying to raise mobs and start bonfires.

You can't fix what you are!

You can't fix what you are!

I didn't.
You are avoiding the context.

You can't fix what you are!

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean
If you were truly surrendered to God as your church presents, you
wouldn't have any "problems" and people wouldn't be left in the wake of
your sin!

If you were truly surrendered to God as your church presents, you
wouldn't have any "problems" and people wouldn't be left in the wake
of your sin!

You are avoiding the truth. And for the record, the true Church of
Jesus Christ is without spot or blemish, perfect, and ready waiting for
her husband...

Where can I find this true Church?
Or is it just in your own mind?

Post by Michael McLean
Son 2:8  The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the
mountains, skipping upon the hills.
..to come, and has a wedding gown on without so much as a speck of dirt.
How do I know that? Well, you are going to have to ask my Beloved.

Praise the Lord and pass the potatoes.

Post by Michael McLean
Michael McLean
PS: Just focus on what is truth, Patrick, and stop trying to defend the
undefendable.

I do not defend you or your false interpretaions of the Bible.

[Michael McLean]

Post by P+Barker
On Wed, 5 Oct 2022 09:58:39 +1100, Michael McLean

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
On Wed, 5 Oct 2022 07:46:02 +1100, Michael McLean

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
And many of the 37 priests on active duty have been dead for 35 years.

The mind boggles as to what came before...them.

I agree.
What makes you think with such stupidity.

Stupidity is ignoring the horrendous implications, the fact of what your
forefathers built their faith in your church upon.

What implications?
Please explain.

Really?
Luk_6:43  For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth
a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

OK. What does that have to do with faith in Jesus?

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
The Phila Grand Jury provided a false story.

Not relevant.

That is what this post is about.

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean
The biggest problem with you, Buddy Barker, is that you try to sweep a
mile high pile of excrement under a carpet.
Your church is not the Church of Jesus Christ, and neither is the
Protestant one.

Admit what?
Of course I admit that some evil fag priests

All sinners are evil.

Of course they are.
I am speaking about a "FEW" evil fag priests.
They are sinners.
They are evil.
That does not imply that all priests are evil.

Irrelevant.

That does not imply that all priests are evil.
That is what this post is about.

Post by Michael McLean
You point your finger at them, being a sinner yourself. Now, that is
relevant to the Lord. Mary wouldn't be too impressed either! :-).

All people sin. Even you.

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
abused their position
and sexually abused children.
Of course I admit that bishops were dumbfounded as to what
they should do. Since most victims and families wanted to keep
the abuse quiet, the bishops looked for other solutions. They sought
advice from the leading shrinks of the day, and by God, they were
stupid enough to follow that advice. And because of this, the church
has paid out $ 3 Billion to the lawyers of the victims who came
forward 40 years after the fact.

Perhaps your "church" should have sought a higher power than that of man?

Perhaps they did.

Obviously they didn't. Unless God's will is flawed??

Do you think God will prevent sin?
Try to remember that all people have free wills.

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
Should we blame God for giving men a free will?
Should we blame the church for the sins that some men committed?

You judge heavenly things by earthly standards, Patrick.

Should we blame the church for the sins that some men committed?

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
Those bishops sent those offending evil fag priests to treatment
centers were they were "cured."

You can't cure sin, Buddy. It must be destroyed.

I didn't say that.

But God did.

No, he didn't.
God has never given men the approval or ability to destroy sin.

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
Over 50 uears ago APA leaders, in the glare of a national media
spotlight, took the controversial step of deleting homosexuality from
the Association's compendium of psychiatric disorders. That action
launched APA on a quarter century of efforts to end discrimination
against homosexuals and coincided with the increasing willingness of
gay and lesbian psychiatrists to insist openly that APA must listen to
them.
If there was an official kickoff for APA's newly energized gay
psychiatrists, it was the 1970 annual meeting in San Francisco,
Sabshin suggested, where Gay Liberation Front activists along with
political protesters in support of other social and political causes
disrupted the meeting. "It was guerilla theater" at that meeting and
the one held in Washington, D.C., the next year, he said.
In 1972, for the first time, the annual meeting featured exhibits and
discussions spotlighting positive aspects of the lives of gay
individuals. Also during that year well-known psychiatrists such as
Richard Green, M.D., Judd Marmor, M.D., and John Spiegel, M.D., began
openly challenging psychiatrists' attitudes toward and treatment of
homosexual patients, Sabshin observed. Marmor, a psychoanalyst who
would soon be elected APA president, played a particularly significant
role in trying to bridge the chasm that existed between his
psychoanalytic colleagues and psychiatrists who were convinced that
homosexuality was not an illness.
Sabshin credited the chair of APA's Committee on Nomenclature in the
early 1970s, Robert Spitzer, M.D., with playing a pivotal role in
propelling the evolution of APA's position on homosexuality. That
committee was charged with revising the initial version of DSM, and
Spitzer-armed with research showing there were no valid data to link
homosexuality and mental illness-advocated forcefully for the strategy
of deleting homosexuality from the disorders list and replacing it
with a new one called "sexual orientation disturbance."
In a key vote in December 1973, the Board of Trustees overwhelmingly
endorsed Spitzer's recommendation. Opponents of the decision attempted
to overturn it with a referendum of the APA membership in early
1974-just as Sabshin was beginning his 23-year tenure as APA medical
director. The Board's decision to delete homosexuality from the
diagnostic manual was supported by 58 percent of the membership.
At the same time the debates over sexual orientation and
psychopathology were occurring, a small group of gay psychiatrists was
holding informal meetings to explore forming an organization that
would heighten their visibility and that of gay patients.
In the mid 1980s APA formed a task force on homosexuality issues, and
by that time, Cabaj emphasized, it was able to focus not on the
psychopathology battle but on homophobia, discrimination, and
stereotyping. The task force was eventually elevated to a permanent
component, the Committee on Gay, Lesbian, and Bisexual Issues. One of
its earliest chairs was San Francisco psychiatrist James Krajeski,
M.D., who this month became editor of Psychiatric News.
While gay psychiatrists "now have a place at the table," APA and
psychiatry in general will still have to address several troubling
issues related to homosexuality, said Rubin, a research fellow at UCLA
and member of the APA Committee on Gay, Lesbian, and Bisexual Issues.
Prominent on this list is the large number of psychiatry residency
programs where nothing is taught about homosexuality or where the
program is "gay for a day," that is, where a few hours are devoted to
this topic often via a guest speaker. In addition, psychiatrists will
be called upon to take a leadership role in discussions of the
relative influence of biological factors on the development of sexual
orientation, he said.
http://www.psych.org/pnews/98-07-17/dsm.html

Interesting, but the ways of man are not the path of righteousness,
neither can they be.

I didn't say that the ways of man are the path of righteousness.
Men err. Men sin.

Post by Michael McLean
This is what you are not seeing, how men in your church seek to fix
things, when they can't. In fact, you put an impossible weight on their
shoulders with the expectation that they can and will.

Of course men (in church and out of church) seek to fix things.
That is what we do.

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean
The human heart has to be cleansed of all unrighteousness...all...and
only God can do that. A holiday resort within your church for
'indulgences' doesn't do squat.

Is your heart cleansed?

Of course, how else can I speak the truth of God?! Is truth of myself??

<Yawn>

Post by Michael McLean
Of course not! The truth I speak may not coincide with your ideals,
but why would you expect they would??

Why do you claim to speak the truth?
Are you "seeking" to "FIX THINGS?"
You've already said man cannot fix things.
See above.

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
How can you insure that someone else's heart has be cleansed?

When you walk in the light, you see. Praise be to God!

<Yawn>
Praise the Lord and pass the potatoes.

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
Sometimes you must utilize "experts" in the field to determine if
something is correct or not?

No, God is the authority, and there is none other.

Then why are you here again?
You are no authority.
You said so yourself.

Post by Michael McLean
You are supposed to believe in Him, and Him alone. He will not share
His glory with another!

Praise the Lord and pass the potatoes.

Post by Michael McLean
Isa 42:8  I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give
to another, neither my praise to graven images.
Believe it or not, that "psychiatry" is a graven image, a stone statue
not knowing anything.
I know, it is not "normal" in the fallen world.

Then why are you here again?
You are no authority.
You said so yourself.

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
Since the RCC is in the forgiveness
business, not the punishment business, they again made more
mistakes by believing the repentant evil fag priest was sorry for
his sins, and they allowed him to remain in the ministry.
I admit this was a bad decision on the part of the bishops

Not only do you condemn your church sanctified [quote] "evil fag
priests", but you write off your bishops - your church sanctified
leaders - as bad decision makers.

There are evil fags in every creed and culture.
Look around.
Talk to yer buddy, matt.
And... everyone makes mistakes.
Everyone sins. Even you.
Jesus said so.
1 John 1:8
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not
in us.

That was not the end of the matter.

"You are supposed to believe in Him, and Him alone. He will not share
His glory with another!" <Mikey>

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
Genesis 6:12
God looked on the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had
corrupted their way upon the earth.

That was not the end of the matter.

"You are supposed to believe in Him, and Him alone. He will not share
His glory with another!" <Mikey>

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
1 Kings 8:46
“When they sin against You (for there is no man who does not sin) and
You are angry with them and deliver them to an enemy, so that they
take them away captive to the land of the enemy, far off or near;

That was not the end of the matter.

"You are supposed to believe in Him, and Him alone. He will not share
His glory with another!" <Mikey>

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
Ecclesiastes 7:20
Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does
good and who never sins.

That was not the end of the matter.

"You are supposed to believe in Him, and Him alone. He will not share
His glory with another!" <Mikey>

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
Romans 3:10
as it is written,
“There is none righteous, not even one;

That was not the end of the matter.

"You are supposed to believe in Him, and Him alone. He will not share
His glory with another!" <Mikey>

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

That was not the end of the matter.

"You are supposed to believe in Him, and Him alone. He will not share
His glory with another!" <Mikey>

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
Galatians 3:22
But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise
by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Now there is the end of the matter.

"You are supposed to believe in Him, and Him alone. He will not share
His glory with another!" <Mikey>

Post by Michael McLean
The Lord Jesus Christ did not die so that you, your church, or me, or
anybody had to remain as they are.
With God, all things are possible.
How comfortable are you in your skin, Patrick? I wasn't.

I am a practicing Catholic.
I try to make this world a better place.
I do not tell others they are going to Hell.
(except maybe you, heh heh)

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean
Who the hell do you think you are, Barker, Robert the Holy sinner Who??

I am Patrick Barker, a practicing Catholic.

I think it is high time you became practicing believer in God.

Catholics believe in God.
We also breath, eat, sleep, and perform work.

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean
If you condemn your neighbour for sin and you condemn yourself. You,
like so many religious others, see yourself as a better class of sinner.

I do not have the ability to condemn others.
And, I am not better than anyone, except maybe... you.

Of course! :-).
What about those "evil fag priests"? :-).

I'll let God judge them.
Any person who deliberately harms a child is evil.
I am allowed to voice my opinion on this.

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean
There again are those implications (fruit) mentioned earlier from your
so called church!

If you insist on limiting the second law to applications involving
thermal entropy, and that the only entropy is thermal entropy, than
Sal is right that the second law has little to say about the emergence
of life on Earth. But it is not just the "creationists" who apply it
much more generally, many violent opponents of ID (including Asimov,
Dawkins, Styer and Bunn) agree that this emergence does represent a
decrease in "entropy" in the more general sense, they just argue that
this decrease is compensated by increases outside our open system, an
argument that is so widely used that I created the video below,
Evolution is a Natural Process Running Backward to address it a few
months ago.

This doesn't appear to have anything to do with what we are talking about.

DUHHHHHHH.
Now you are starting to get my point about what you say to me.

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
This is all fact. Of course I admit it.

You splash around in the shallows of irrelevance and make it sound like
you are saying something. Or as the Lord Jesus said, you strain at a
gnat and swallow a camel.

It must be Tuesday, I've brought my tomato sauce and a surly duck.
Hardly any Wednesdays sing on Thursdays without a choir.

Nevertheless, as above.

DUHHHHHHH.
Now you are starting to get my point about what you say to me.

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
The evil fag priests were bad. Of course I admit it.
The bishops were stupid and made the wrong choices. I admit that.

God help you!

God always helps me.

Then the truth in this post is welcomed, or simply spurned and mocked?

Truth is truth.
I could care less if you welcome it or not.

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
The fact is that YOU refuse to admit that perhaps the RCC
made its mistakes, admitted its mistakes, paid for those mistakes,
and has made positive corrective actions to prevent this from
ever happening again. No fag priest is now allowed in the ministry.
As soon as any priest is accused of misconduct, he is immediately
removed from the ministry. The bishops all have marching orders
to cooperate with civil authorities when it comes to this crime.
You don't want to let this go, because you have another agenda
against the RCC. You feel you were wronged by the RCC in some
way - perhaps because they informed you that YOU are totally
responsible for your bad decisions and your actions. You have
some sort of sin that you feel should be accepted by the church.
And you are pissed because the RCC refuses to let you off the hook.
What is your particular sin? Abortion? Divorce? Homosexual acts?
What is it?

Loving God will all my heart, soul, and mind, and if your church did
that, you would not have to come up with all the excuses.

What is your particular sin? Abortion? Divorce? Homosexual acts?
What is it?

I was cleansed of all unrighteousness by the Lord.

Did the Lord tell you this?

Post by Michael McLean
Your quote, here you go...
Galatians 3:22

Post by P+Barker
But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise
by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

To be clean, Patrick, to be clean. But if you are happy to be remain
dirty, so be it.

Speak for yourself.
Do not judge me.
You don't have the authority.

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker
Most Catholics were shocked when the crisis first came about.
They were disturbed, wary, and wanted explanations.
There were no good excuses. However, after studying the
problem, most Catholics have just come to realize that the
priests that they held so high on pedestals were merely humans.
And, the bishops were dumbstruck on how to handle the problem.
Most Catholics have now accepted the fact that mistakes were
made, poor decisions, and some hushing up to protect the
victims and accused. The bishops looked for quiet solutions,
and they found out that there aren't any.
Protocols have changed, and those same decisions will
never be made again.
Most Catholics are watching, praying and will remain vigilant.
The outsiders are still trying to raise mobs and start bonfires.

You can't fix what you are!

You can't fix what you are!

I didn't.
You are avoiding the context.

You can't fix what you are!

Post by Michael McLean

Post by P+Barker

Post by Michael McLean
If you were truly surrendered to God as your church presents, you
wouldn't have any "problems" and people wouldn't be left in the wake of
your sin!

If you were truly surrendered to God as your church presents, you
wouldn't have any "problems" and people wouldn't be left in the wake
of your sin!

You are avoiding the truth. And for the record, the true Church of
Jesus Christ is without spot or blemish, perfect, and ready waiting for
her husband...

Where can I find this true Church?
Or is it just in your own mind?

Post by Michael McLean
Son 2:8  The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the
mountains, skipping upon the hills.
..to come, and has a wedding gown on without so much as a speck of dirt.
How do I know that? Well, you are going to have to ask my Beloved.

Praise the Lord and pass the potatoes.

Post by Michael McLean
Michael McLean
PS: Just focus on what is truth, Patrick, and stop trying to defend the
undefendable.

I do not defend you or your false interpretaions of the Bible.

There was plenty in there for you to understand. I am off the stubborn
Barker roller-coaster, thanks.




Michael McLean
--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"Sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

[Nightbulb.net]

Post by Michael McLean
Your church is not the Church of Jesus Christ, and neither is the
Protestant one.

The kingdom cometh not with observation ... lo here, lo there ...

[Michael McLean]

Post by Nightbulb.net

Post by Michael McLean
Your church is not the Church of Jesus Christ, and neither is the
Protestant one.

The kingdom cometh not with observation ... lo here, lo there ...

Yes, that's right.

They want a God they can see; nothing new there! Reminds me of the
Movie 'King David' with Richard Gere, and Samuel is holding the head of
the Amalekite king after having severed it, and said to King Saul,
"Israel wanted a king they could see. Here is a King you can see."



Mike
--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that you could play God."

[Dr. Who]

Post by Michael McLean

Post by Nightbulb.net

Post by Michael McLean
Your church is not the Church of Jesus Christ, and neither is the
Protestant one.

The kingdom cometh not with observation ... lo here, lo there ...

Yes, that's right.
They want a God they can see; nothing new there! Reminds me of the
Movie 'King David' with Richard Gere, and Samuel is holding the head of
the Amalekite king after having severed it, and said to King Saul,
"Israel wanted a king they could see. Here is a King you can see."
Mike

OOPSIE?

Now you have some splaining to do to Mark Earnest.

[Michael McLean]

You've got your Robert Rightless context.

Bon appetite. :-).

Simple.




Mike
--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that you could play God."

[Mattb]

Post by P+Barker

Post by Mattb
The Catholic Church’s grim history of ignoring priestly pedophilia –
and silencing would-be whistleblowers
Widespread public shock followed the recent release of the
Pennsylvania grand jury report that identified more than 1,000 child
victims of clergy sexual abuse

The findings of the Phila Grand Jury were BULL SHIT.
As I've told you many times.
Even back to 2011.
Stop yer whining.
Your stupid grand jury also claimed there were 37 active duty child
abuser priests in Philadelphia.
Let's look at those 37 priests.

Post by Mattb
Father Stanley Gana 79

Gana was removed from the ministry in 2002 and totally defrocked in
2006. Rev. Stanley Gana became a priest in 1970 and was defrocked
3/21/2006. He was also a chaplain of the Boy Scouts of America. Rev.
Stanley, who was accused in the grand-jury report of raping and
molesting "countless boys in a succession of Philadelphia Archdiocese
parishes," had been living in central Florida in 2005 and 2006 with a
friend who was unaware of the grand-jury's findings, the Orlando
Sentinel reported last August. postedon Friday, April 04, 2008

Post by Mattb
Father Raymond Leneweaver 101
By the time Fr. Leneweaver was transferred for the fourth time, the
Archdiocese Chancellor, Francis J. Statkus, noted in a September 1980
letter that "he was appointed to this area of the diocese because it is
one of the few remaining areas where his scandalous action may not be
known."

Father Leneweaver, then a teacher at Cardinal O'Hara High School as a
result of his reassignment in 1966, claimed that his molestation of
Jeffrey for more than two years had been a temporary lapse. He blamed
depression following his first assignment, where he had lived with an
alcoholic priest and had had to minister to "the Negroes." Father
Leneweaver also claimed that his parents had died shortly before he
began molesting Jeffrey. The priest often used his parents - who, in
fact, were not dead in 1968 - to explain the "difficulties" in his
life. Archdiocese officials did not report Fr. Leneweaver's criminal
abuse of multiple minors to the police. Nor did they initiate
proceedings to remove Fr. Leneweaver from the priesthood. Instead, on
May 7, 1975, Cardinal Krol granted Fr. Leneweaver leave to take care
of his still-alive parents in Florida and to seek treatment there.
In December 1980, he asked for a permanent leave of absence. In a
notation to a memo approving Fr. Leneweaver's leave, Cardinal Krol
wrote: His problem is not occupational or geographical & will follow
him wherever he goes. He should be convinced that his orientation is
an acquired preference for a particular method of satisfying a normal
human appetite. - An appetite which is totally incompatible with vow
of chastity + commitment to celibacy.
In 1997, Fr. Leneweaver wrote directly to Cardinal Bevilacqua,
expressing his interest in resuming active ministry .He sent the
Cardinal what Vicar for Administration Joseph Cistone referred to as
"a rather large packet of materials." It contained the priest's
resume; several letters of reference for teaching positions, at least
one written by an Archdiocese employee; a letter thanking the priest
for his volunteer work at a homeless shelter for youth; and a clean
criminal history record obtained by Fr. Leneweaver when he applied for
a teaching position in New Jersey in 1993.
In 1998, The Secretary for Clergy recommended that the Archdiocese
write Fr. Leneweaver and explain that "for his own welfare and the
welfare of the Church," his request to return to ministry could not be
granted.
On January 29, 2002, Msgrs. Lynn and Cistone were informed by memo
that Fr. Leneweaver had been teaching Latin and History full-time for
three years in the Philadelphia suburbs -in the North Penn and Central
Bucks School Districts.

Post by Mattb
Father Joseph Gausch 117

Was ordained in 1945..... Was sent to therapy in 1948.
Was accused of allegations in 1994. Was investigated.
Father Joe Gausch DIED 12 years ago.

Post by Mattb
Father Nicholas Cudemo 125

Was ordained in 1963. He retired in 1999.
He had his faculties restricted in 2002.
He liked the ladies.

Post by Mattb
Father Peter Dunne 157

Was ordained in 1954. The diocese is informed he is a pedophile in
1994.
Father Pete attempted to buy the silence of his victims.
Father Pete requested unresticted retirement. He was denied.
Paperwork was sumitted to Laicize him in 1994.
Dunne retired to a cabin in 1995.

Post by Mattb
Father James Brzyski 177

In 1984 he was confronted with numerous allegations. Father B
asked to resign. He was told that he could not. He needed to
confront his sins and try to work out his problems. He was sent to
therapy. He lied and convinced his superiors he was cured.
Finally he was removed from active ministry in the 1990's
And in 2004, his case was sent for forced laicization.

Post by Mattb
Father David Sicoli 197

Was accused of sexual abuse in the 1970's and 1980's.
He was sent to therapy and couseling on several occasions.
In 2002, he was caught living with 2 boys in the rectory.
He had a bagful of excuses.
Allegations could not be substantiated. Finally.....
In 2004, he was forcibly removed from the ministry.
He refused to appear before the grand jury.

Post by Mattb
Father John Connor 223

ordained in 1952. Was arrested in 1994. Was sent to therapy.
The DA did not indict, did not prosecute.
in 1993, he and the diocese were sued.
He was removed from the ministry and confined.
In the summer of 1991, Rome informed O'Connor that he was dismissed
from the Dominicans. O'Connor packed his bags and left the River
Forest Priory forever.

Post by Mattb
Father Gerard Chambers 233

Ordained in 1934, Fr. Chambers was accused of molesting numerous altar
boys, and anally and orally raping at least one, during 40 years as a
priest in the Archdiocese. The priest was placed on permanent health
leave in 1963, at the age of 56. He died in 1974. His records were
destroyed in the 90's. Three more victims came forward in 2002.
--------------------------------------------
If you really want to discuss more dead priests accused of being in
active ministry, please let me know. We can continue...........
Right now, I'm getting tired.

Post by Mattb
Father Michael McCarthy 243
Father Albert Kostelnick 255
Father Edward DePaoli 261
Monsignor David Walls 277
Father Francis Rogers 289
Father Francis Trauger 303
Father John Schmeer 313
Monsignor Francis Giliberti 321
Father John Mulholland 327
Monsignor John Gillespie 339
Monsignor Leonard Furmanski 347
Father John Delli Carpini 359
Father Thomas Wisniewski 365
Father Thomas Smith 373
Father Francis Gallagher 381
Father Thomas Shea 387
Father John Cannon 393
Father Michael Bolesta 397
Father Robert Brennan 405

In fact, we discovered that there have been at least 37 such

Post by Mattb
priests who have been
kept in assignments that expose them to children. Ten of these priests
have
http://www.phila.gov/districtattorney/PDFs/clergyAbuse2-finalReport.pdf

And many of the 37 priests on active duty have been dead for 35 years.

My questions were:
"What does this say about the core values of the RCC and have they
changed?

Would you trust your kids with the RCC?"

The core values haven't changed. Have they?

[P+Barker]

Post by Mattb
"What does this say about the core values of the RCC and have they
changed?
Would you trust your kids with the RCC?"
The core values haven't changed. Have they?

Nothing. Yes. No.

[Mattb]

Post by P+Barker

Post by Mattb
"What does this say about the core values of the RCC and have they
changed?
Would you trust your kids with the RCC?"
The core values haven't changed. Have they?

Nothing. Yes. No.

It says much about the soul of the RCC. Every member that has
donated to the RCC has also taken part in this evil cover-up and
defense of pedophilia.

[P+Barker]

Post by Mattb

Post by P+Barker

Post by Mattb
"What does this say about the core values of the RCC and have they
changed?
Would you trust your kids with the RCC?"
The core values haven't changed. Have they?

Nothing. Yes. No.

It says much about the soul of the RCC. Every member that has
donated to the RCC has also taken part in this evil cover-up and
defense of pedophilia.

<Yawn> Tell yer mom to send us another check.

[Mattb]

Post by P+Barker

Post by Mattb

Post by P+Barker

Post by Mattb
"What does this say about the core values of the RCC and have they
changed?
Would you trust your kids with the RCC?"
The core values haven't changed. Have they?

Nothing. Yes. No.

It says much about the soul of the RCC. Every member that has
donated to the RCC has also taken part in this evil cover-up and
defense of pedophilia.

<Yawn> Tell yer mom to send us another check.

Is it true you had your mother put down because she was about to out
you?